[SPOILERS] PB9 Lurker Thread

[Sian]

i'm considering CQ's start the best ... Commodores doesn't really look that hot for me to be frank

[superjm]

Commodore only has AH food visible and even if you settle on plains hill you have a coastal capital with no seafood. I'm not a fan of that one.

Not seeing the logic in CQ's start being the best, unless you mean "as soon as he gets Calender" which is true, but that's quite a ways out.

[Cyneheard]

Not seeing the logic in CQ's start being the best, unless you mean "as soon as he gets Calender" which is true, but that's quite a ways out.

He settles on the sugar, and gets 3f in the city center from T0 on: about as good as starting on a PH, and he's still got a corn (albeit dry), can farm the banana for another 4f tile and he's got nothing but grassland.

If AT had a different set of starting techs, he'd have a frustrating start, but fishing/agri lets him go Worker or WB first (I think WB first is faster?), and he's got more food than he'll know what to do with.

[pindicator]

Well AT has the best start. Commodore is #2.

I kind of like Jowy's, I'd take it over Commodore's at least. AT is definitely tops.

Worst start isn't even close: Azza by a mile

[Lewwyn]

Worst start isn't even close: Azza by a mile

Poor Azza.

[superjm]

If I see Azza's start when I play a game, I would have already clicked the "Regenerate Map" button two seconds go.

It'll be interesting to see how he deals with it.

[scooter]

Wow, yeah AT's start is just amazing. He's got seafood and rice, he's Agri/Fishing. He's got coastal start and lighthouseable lakes - he's FIN. He's got high food, he's CHM to grow with it and whip. They aren't even playing rb mod, so he can get himself a quick granary and just whip the mess out of that city. That should be the early leader barring something unfortunate happening.

[timski]

AT's start certainly got heavily edited. The version I saw was high food, but almost entire seafood, with nothing farmable. Hence originally an interesting start - long-term potential delayed by the need to produce Work Boats. AT has ended up with not only more land-based food, one of which they can improve immediately, but more riverside and land in general.

Now, as I understand it, AT's overall land area is still balanced in their opponents' favour. And in contrast, Azza's start is dire, but nearby they have Gold, Iron, Copper and Horses - so their overall land is pretty strong. But that raises the question as to whether it is most important to balance overall land area, or land in the starting city's big fat cross?

Civ 4 is often described as a snowball game, and as such the better starting city clearly carry momentum and importance. So perhaps balancing on overall land should not have been the prime factor in balancing? Sure, we quickly get back to mirrored starts and maps, which wasn't what the players asked for. But I'm wondering if it wasn't preferable just to roll the map and either accept it or reroll, rather than trying to tweak-in balance.

(I should add that comment is for future reference/discussion - I'm not proposing changing the starts at this stage.)

[Sareln]

AT's start certainly got heavily edited. The version I saw was high food, but almost entire seafood, with nothing farmable. Hence originally an interesting start - long-term potential delayed by the need to produce Work Boats. AT has ended up with not only more land-based food, one of which they can improve immediately, but more riverside and land in general.

Now, as I understand it, AT's overall land area is still balanced in their opponents' favour. And in contrast, Azza's start is dire, but nearby they have Gold, Iron, Copper and Horses - so their overall land is pretty strong. But that raises the question as to whether it is most important to balance overall land area, or land in the starting city's big fat cross?

Civ 4 is often described as a snowball game, and as such the better starting city clearly carry momentum and importance. So perhaps balancing on overall land should not have been the prime factor in balancing? Sure, we quickly get back to mirrored starts and maps, which wasn't what the players asked for. But I'm wondering if it wasn't preferable just to roll the map and either accept it or reroll, rather than trying to tweak-in balance.

(I should add that comment is for future reference/discussion - I'm not proposing changing the starts at this stage.)

Azza actually has a gold monopoly, and Iron in his 3rd ring provided he settles in place; that doesn't change btw, if he moves to the plains hill. Yes, starting capitals are going to matter. Will it swing this game? Given the game settings, I'm not so sure.

[Sullla]

"Dire" start for Azza?! Are we looking at the same map here?



Plains hill start, +5 food from the grassland sheep, +7 food (and +1 production) from the second sheep, 10 foodhammers at size 2, on a river, forests to chop... This now qualifies as a bad start?! You guys need to stop playing on so many lush hand-edited maps and start rolling some true random starts. This was what I rolled for the YouTube playthrough I did in recent months:



That's a legitimately weak start, and I've played from worse than that many times. People complain way too much about the maps in these games. Play more true random maps and see what you get.