[SPOILERS] Jowy & Stampy

[flugauto]

I will dedlurk here. I tested your opening, I looks like your first worker has enough time after the sheep pasture before BW to build a deer camp.

[Jowy]

I will dedlurk here. I tested your opening, I looks like your first worker has enough time after the sheep pasture before BW to build a deer camp.

Welcome aboard! Build order is still "first draft" because I haven't tested it yet in a mirror game It's more of a rough estimation. Depending how much BW is delayed, I could go Agri -> BW, improve the corn and deer and then chop. I'll simulate a few scenarios later.

[flugauto]

Agri - AH - BW - Wheel

T0. City1 starts worker. Research set to Agri (9T).
T3. City1's borders expand.
T9. Agri researched. Research set to AH (9T).
T15. Worker1 done. Warrior started. Worker1 moves to the corn.
T16. Worker1 moves 1W, builds 5T corn farm.
T18. AH done. Research set to BW. (14T).
T20. The corn farm done. City starts working it.
T21. Worker1 moves to the sheep.
T22. City1 grows, starts working sheep. Worker1 builds 4T sheep pasture.
T25. City1's borders expand. City1 grows, starts working grass forest. Sheep pasture done. BW 7 turns.
T26. Worker1 moves to 1S of City1. BW 6 turns.
T27. Worker1 moves 1SE to the deer. BW 5 turns.
T28. City1 grows to size4. Warrior1 done. Settler started. Worker1 builds 5T camp. BW 4 turns.
T32. BW researched. Research set to Wheel. The deer camp done.
T34. Worker1 3T chops.
T36. Settler done. Worker2 started. Worker1 chop done. Worker2 in 2turns.

There is an option to T28 start a 5T 2nd worker, then double chop get a settler T36.

[Jowy]

Let's see if I can beat that
I ran a few sims, these ones (very close to yours) were the best:

T0 - Start Agriculture, worker
T9 - Agriculture complete, start AH
T15 - Worker complete, start Warrior
T15 - Worker improves grassland for 1T
T16 - Worker moves to corn and starts improving it
T20 - AH complete, start BW
T20 - Corn improvement complete
T20 - City works corn
T21 - Worker improves grassland for 1T
T22 - Worker moves to sheep and starts improving it
T22 - City grows to size 2, works corn and sheep
T25 - Sheep improvement complete
T25 - City grows to size 3, works corn, sheep and deer
T28 - City grows to size 4, works corn, sheep, deer and grassland forest
T28 - Warrior complete, start Settler
T32 - Deer improvement complete
T34 - BW complete, start TW
T36 - Settler complete, start Worker
T36 - Revolt to slavery
T37 - Chop complete (1 south of City)
T38 - Whip worker
T39 - Worker complete, with 22 hammer overflow

An alternative based on our beginning:

T28 - Start Warrior2
T31 - City grows to size 5
T31 - Switch to Settler
T32 - Deer improvement complete
T34 - BW complete, start TW
T34 - Revolt to slavery
T35 - Double-whip Settler
T36 - Settler complete, start Worker
T38 - Chop complete
T39 - Worker complete, start Worker
T42 - Riverside chop complete
T43 - Second riverside chop complete
T43 - Worker complete, start Settler (27 overflow + 20 from chop)
T43 - TW complete, start Pottery
(and 10/15 hammers has been invested into a Warrior in queue)


Some things to note:
* We can save two worker turns by putting 1 turn into a farm between moving to corn and sheep.
* At T9, you start AH and get it in 9 turns, but I get it in 11 turns. I think one of us has the set-up wrong? Really weird, any other ideas?
* I tried your second suggestion, but only managed to get a Settler out at T38. How did you manage to get it at T36?

I think I'll go with the alternative. Horses or copper could change plans however
Bit worried about barbarians.

[Jowy]

One way our numbers might differ that I can think of is that you scouted, met other leaders and got the bonus for known techs. EDIT: Out with the wrong calculations :P EDIT2: The bonus isn't big enough.

[flugauto]

1. About the 1T farms, while testing, I get forests there, so no farms
2. About AH. 8 commerce from the palace, 1 from the city plot, 1 from the sheep plot = 10 commerce = 10 beakers. +25% prereqs that is Agri + Huntig = +50%. 10 beakers + 50% = 15 beakers. Plus overflow from Agri. So it is 9 turns.
3. Sorry. The 2 workers option is T36 double chops, T37 settler ready. I didn't revolt to slavery right away.

In the tests I settled everyone isolated, so no KnownTech bonus.

[Jowy]

1. About the 1T farms, while testing, I get forests there, so no farms
2. About AH. 8 commerce from the palace, 1 from the city plot, 1 from the sheep plot = 10 commerce = 10 beakers. +25% prereqs that is Agri + Huntig = +50%. 10 beakers + 50% = 15 beakers. Plus overflow from Agri. So it is 9 turns.
3. Sorry. The 2 workers option is T36 double chops, T37 settler ready. I didn't revolt to slavery right away.

In the tests I settled everyone isolated, so no KnownTech bonus.

1. Ah okay I got two forest spawns too, let's hope we have that luck in the real game.
2. The math you posted is correct, but the result is not! If we get 15 beakers a turn, it takes 10,7333333 turns to research AH. The overflow from Agriculture was just 4 beakers, not enough to change the time needed to research. So 11 turns. Where does the 9 come from?
3. I think the problem I had was that the worker who completed the deer, would take 1 turn longer to chop a forest. Did you happen to get a forest spawn on the grassland hill next to the deer? Since it's not tundra, it would explain how you get a double-chop (it's slower to chop tundra tiles).

This is some fascinating stuff

[flugauto]

It is +20% prereq bonus, and +1 free research, so it is 14 beakers + 1 beaker. And Agri is 89 beakers, with 99 from 11 beakers per 9 turns. So it is 10 beakers overflow that gets +40% prereq bonus, that is 14 beakers. So 15 beakers per 9 turns is 135 beakers, plus 14 from the overflow makes it 149, exactly the AH cost.

Is the forest 1S of the city a tundra? I thought it was a grasshill.

[Jowy]

It is +20% prereq bonus, and +1 free research, so it is 14 beakers + 1 beaker. And Agri is 89 beakers, with 99 from 11 beakers per 9 turns. So it is 10 beakers overflow that gets +40% prereq bonus, that is 14 beakers. So 15 beakers per 9 turns is 135 beakers, plus 14 from the overflow makes it 149, exactly the AH cost.

Is the forest 1S of the city a tundra? I thought it was a grasshill.

My test game overflow was lower (19 beakers into AH after researching one turn into it, and since we normally get 15, that's 4 overflow). Also AH cost was 161 beakers. Uhhhh
I checked the live game and it's 161 there as well.

And yeah it is tundra indeed!

[flugauto]

Ok. The setup it is! I assumed the game was Monarch, Normal size, Normal speed, Ancient start. Where was I wrongg?