Diplo with Tropical Trolls

[TheHumanHydra]

HAK, I'm actually desperately trying to finish a major essay right now; I can't really afford the time to go on Google chat for live play. I trust your Scout movement decisions! (Here it was just a minor diplomatic issue.)

[HitAnyKey]

And just to let you know, I've already chatted with plako just now and he's cool with everything.

[HitAnyKey]

Had a quick chat with plako this morning. Gillette just sent them a message, as it's nearing time for their current NAP to expire so they want to negotiate a new one. plako is going to send them a message to see about extending their NAP to T105. I told him that is fine, and we are likely to try to do the same thing. I'll write up a quick message to Gillette to at least try to get an initial reply from them. It'll be a simple message asking if they would like to return to NAP discussions, for us to pick up where scooter left off.

[TheHumanHydra]

Good news. I think the Trolls will be a valuable ally.

[HitAnyKey]

I haven't sent it just yet, but this is my proposed quick message to Trolls. plako isn't online for chat right now, hence why I'll send an email. I'm gonna be heading to my parents in a few to help hang Xmas lights and stuff, so will probably send it in an hour or two from their house.

Greetings.
This quick message is to let you know that Gillette has agreed to a NAP and they have suggested a period until T100. We plan to accept this.
They also asked about having Open Borders for trade routes, which we will most likely accept. Since we don't have the appropriate connection with you yet for trade routes to be available, we need the income from trade routes with Gillette for the time being.

Sincerely,
HitAnyKey

The message is already composed in Draft in our email box. THH, if you see this before I get around to sending it and you agree, feel free to log in and click send.

EDIT: I ended chatting with plako before I got around to sending this. So he's been informed that we are accepting their T100 NAP and the OB. He told me they are still in negotiations or whatever, basically not yet finalizing theirs.

[TheHumanHydra]

Sounds good.

[HitAnyKey]

So plako started a chat with me today while I was at work. Here is the transcript:

4:41 PM plako.plako: hi
4:42 PM me: Hello there.
plako.plako: a bit drunk so beware
me: I guess you got the email I sent?
and I'm busy at work, so may be a little slow. heh
plako.plako: congrats for your prophet
me: Thanks. We've been waiting for awhile for him.
we finally get to have our shrine now
4:43 PM plako.plako: Good news. Actually I haven't checked our team email. Doing it now
me: just Gillette wanting to extend our NAP to T125
4:44 PM plako.plako: darn. don't remeber pasword. Need to check it from forum
ok - was there something else there - I can skip logging in these hours
me: Nope, that was it. Informing you that they were asking to extend the NAP and that we are planning to accept it.
4:46 PM plako.plako: ok. Would you be intrested in spreading Hindu to us?
4:47 PM me: Probably. I'll check with the team, but we may need somethingin return. Especially since right now we haven't even gotten it to our own cities so building a Missionary for you will take away from us building one for ourself.
Oh, and you'll see it next turn....there will be a declaration of war by us against TEAM. But it's only to get our Scout out being blocked in by their new cities on the eastern coast.
Lewwyn didn't want to allow Open Borders. But he's ok with a War for the passed of our scout through
then we'll do peace again after 10 turns
plako.plako: Well I think there is plenty for you. In case it ends up our state religion we would be spreading it
4:49 PM me: yeah, right now it's just the time for building a missionary for things we need to be building for ourselves, like workers and our own missionaries
plako.plako: Strange. I guess he is afraid of GLH
me: yeah, probably.
maybe if you guys would toss us a worker in exchange for the missionary, that might be enough.
4:50 PM plako.plako: That shounds a bit high price. Our workers are fast after all - lol
me: oh right, forgot about that.
well, I guess think about it for now and we can discuss later in more detail
plako.plako: well do you've plans for landing AP?
That woulkd make Hindu a bit more intresting
me: don't know. I don't even remember off the top of my head what that does. Or which Tech is needed to get it
4:52 PM plako.plako: Theology - Gives +2 hámmers for temples and Monasteries
of AP religion
4:53 PM me: ah. I can't think that far ahead yet. LOL
4:57 PM plako.plako: ok. I don't think we're very intrested in paying for missionary at this point. So we'll probably wait for free spread of if we get some of the later religions
4:58 PM me: ok. well, I'll also let you know if we change our minds about sending it to you for free. for now our next misionary or two will need to be used for internal use.
4:59 PM plako.plako: Understandeable. It seems both of us are pretty relaxed concerning ROP deal. Would it be ok if we just scout each others land?
5:00 PM me: that is something I'll need to run by my team first (ie. run by TheHumanHydra....and LordParkin, if he feels like chiming in which is rare). That's all that's left of our team.
5:02 PM plako.plako: ok. It is just you sent your galley through us and now I see your scout in our territory. I've not landed in your territory, but to get faster through I've used it
me: well the scout happened because you settled the city while he was next to the spot you made the city.
as for the galley, we had already talked about the fact that I was sending the galley all the way along the eastern coast to create the trade routes, so I didn't think of the fact that you had created a city down on that coast as well.
but yeah, let me run it by the team first. I think they may be ok with it, since at this point there's nothing much for our own scouts to do either. so allowing mutual exploration should be ok
5:05 PM plako.plako: I better go to bed now. Not sure I was supposed to sign ROP with you - lol

So there's two things kind of on the table. Do we want to spread Hindu to them at any point, and do we want to try to require something from them in return.
And do we want to just agree to a full ROP (Right of Passage) allowing us to scout each other's lands? We have a scout right up against their lands right now that in a few turns will have nothing to do but return home. Scouting their lands would give him something to do. Though that also means they would be able to scout us, but I'm not sure there's all that much of a downside. If we allow it as something from only them and keep everyone else out, we limit it to just the one team having seen our interior.

[TheHumanHydra]

I think we should spread Hinduism to them for free - if they adopt it and spread it everywhere, we will be getting two civ's worth of shrine income off of it. I think we should agree to ROP as well - I think we want to build the closest possible relationship with the Trolls so we can coordinate against our enemies later (or sooner).

[HitAnyKey]

Got a message from plako. They're in talks with Gillette to extend their NAP until T140. He wanted to let us know before they finalize it.

[HitAnyKey]

I figured I would share some of the random chats that plako and I have had recently. Make sure you are up to date on anything that's been said back and forth between us.

From Feb 20th:

11:06 AM plako.plako: hi
11:14 AM me: Heya
11:21 AM plako.plako: just a quickie. Gillette has Machinery
have you got a deal
me: Yeah, I know. I can see their research. Last turn I saw that they were about to get it.
plako.plako: ok
11:22 AM we got alpha so see that way
me: ah, kewl.
11:23 AM we sent them a reply to their last message to us 2 days ago. They haven't replied yet to agree to the nap. But in their first reply they did say that they were interested in extending the NAP.
plako.plako: ok
11:24 AM me: So I'm expecting them to agree. They had simply wanted to know if we had any ideas for stopping you guys from ruling the world before they officially agreed to the NAP. :P
plako.plako: ok . Ty for letting me know.
11:25 AM me: I left my reply pretty generic without any specifics. Simply stating that I agree that the Trolls do need to be stopped fro ruling the world....but then again I don't want them to rule the world either. I want us to rule the world. LOL
after all, we all want ourselves to rule the world.
11:26 AM plako.plako: Sure that is the goal. Normal diplomacy at this point of the game
me: At some point in time, I suppose just about every NAP simply needs to expire. I've never made it this far in an RB game, so don't know what the general rule of thumb is that you guys all try to follow.
2:49 PM plako.plako: hi
me: I'm here.
2:50 PM plako.plako: just wanted to comment your last question. There is no RB "rule of the thumb" concerning NAPs and diplomacy. Most of the games are nowadays played without diplo
2:51 PM me: ah
cuz like right now, I'm betting just about every one of us has a NAP with every other team. Or at least close to it.
2:52 PM plako.plako: yeah and that is natural course of action when there are multiple temas involved. Most of the time NAPs are win-win cases
Both gain compared to other teams
whereas warring is heavily losing
2:53 PM unless you can make substantial gains very fast
me: At some point in time either NAPs need to start just expiring around the board, of someone has to actually break a NAP. And from my understanding, RB players tend to not break a NAP unless some big reason comes up?
plako.plako: It is very rare there are some examples with bad casus bellis that could be considered NAP breaks
2:54 PM But generally it is considered not acceptable
I tried to break this when setting up PB7, but even there people were making binding deals
2:55 PM me: Ok, that's the impression I had been getting as well.
heh yeah, PB7 was fun while it lasted because of the "no binding deals" thing that was supposed to exist.
2:56 PM btw, I was curious. How are your relations with TEAM now that they have new leadership? That's the team that you have the tightest border contentions with....since you have so many cities right up against their cities.
2:57 PM plako.plako: yeah. Tasunke was very active at 1st, but now it has been very slow. Might be stalling our discussion
As far as I can tell they're following our existing deals
me: for us, Tasunke taking over has been a bit better. Lewyyn never seemed to want any communication with us, and never wanted Open Borders at all (hence why we had to declare war for our scout to get out of being blocked in).
2:58 PM we've now got Open Borders with them and a NAP (not that we're close enough to be aggressive with them anyway )
2:59 PM plako.plako: how about you and Pirates?
3:00 PM me: that's where things are kinda weird. Awhile back we agreed on a border line (ie. no city fat-cross passing the line). But we haven't had any communication with them at all since that time.
3:01 PM plako.plako: ok - We haven't had a dicsussion for ages either
me: actually, there was one other communication. our NAP got extended back at the beginning of January
that was the last communication we had. And actually, that nap is coming to an end, now that I check it.
3:02 PM I suppose we should send a message to them to extend it. Heh.
cuz what turn are we at right now? We're coming up on 120 or 125, right?
plako.plako: Yeah that is what diplo on means
we're on T121 or 122
3:03 PM me: ok
our nap ends T130, so guess it's time to contact them again.

From Feb 22nd:

11:37 AM plako.plako: hi
11:38 AM me: Heya
plako.plako: Just checking any news from Gillette?
11:39 AM you might have noticed, but TEAM adopted vassalage
Maybe there is something brewing up there
11:40 AM me: Just heard back. Looks like our nap extension will go through.
11:41 AM And yea I saw that. They adopted three things in one turn
11:42 AM plako.plako: yeah. Only Vassalage did seem worth mentioning . Although they adopted OR, but don't have religion yet. Maybe they adopt it this turn
me: May have just been him wanting to get caught up on civic switches the L hadn't done
plako.plako: yeah
11:44 AM I see you've also built some military. I might be a bit too curious cat here so feel free to ignore my question, but are you planning some activity against Pirates
11:46 AM me: No activities planned yet. We've just realized we fell behind the rest of you in military and needed to beef up our defense
plako.plako: Makes sense. Easier to gt also NAPs, if you're not too far behind militarily wise
11:48 AM me: Yup. That was part of it. Needed to make sure Gillette didnt think they could pass on the nap and come up at us easily.
:-)

Then from yesterday, Feb 25th:

7:24 AM plako.plako: hi
7:49 AM me: heya. getting ready for work right now, so won't really have time for long responses until after I get there.
I'll be leaving in about 10 min
7:50 AM plako.plako: ok - Just 1 request. When you next time log in could you check the positioning of our Iron.
7:51 AM I think you just got IW
7:52 AM me: I'll doublecheck later, but if I recall it's almost right in the middle of all your cities. I think somewhere a bit north of your capital.
But I'll look again later, yeah
7:53 AM plako.plako: thank you - much appreaciated
me: I'm surprised you guys hadn't already gotten IW
plako.plako: It is in the long list of things we would like to have
7:54 AM me: heh
plako.plako: We just started Golden Age and bulbed Philo - Converted to Hindu and switched some civics too