(January 21st, 2013, 15:47)flug__auto Wrote: North of the rice is no-fresh-water, no river tiles, alot of plains. I think that is a very bad place.
Fresh water is not that big a deal in FfH. Plains are not great, but there are several good resource tiles, and the Remnants are awesome. On the other hand, there's no commerce pre bronze working, a huge drawback. My new thinking is Option 2 for capital, tech Agriculture and Mining (farm the rice and cows, mine the gold), Calendar, Bronze Working, second city goes due north of the Remnants.
(January 21st, 2013, 17:30)Qgqqqqq Wrote: Stasis does count as a GA too, so I wouldn't cast T1
What? Are you crazy? I can think of very few situations where not casting it immediately works out better (especially since the AI gets bonus production whenever it founds a city, including its first). Freeze the AIs before they get their first workers out and suddenly it's like your playing 10 turns in front of them. The bonus is unbelievable. Now, at higher levels where the AI gets a free worker, settler, etc, the bonus is lesser, but still better to cast right away than wait due to the multiplicative snowball effect.
Unless you think that Stasis gives a Golden Age. That is not correct. It is much better-it prevents all of the other nations from building or researching anything for a set number if turns (game speed dependent). And it "counts as a golden age" as in it means you need to sacrifice two great people for your next one? Who cares, even if that is true?
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
First off, hats off to Ryan for doing this thread. It is really neato to see someone stumble their way through this massive learning curve and learning as you go. I still don't have all the opportunity costs memorized off-hand, so this should be a fun read for me. A bit of advice, don't get freaked out by the vets here giving suggestions. And if you don't understand their reasoning, don't be afraid to ask. It looks like you've got that part well in hand already too!
Secondly, I vote Petria. It's got food from rice, hammers from Patria, what's not to like? You're hurting for commerce, but planting your 2nd city to grab the gold should set you up nicely. Well, that and cottage spam.
Going to split this up a bit to lessen the wall-of-text effects.
(January 21st, 2013, 14:40)Ryan Wrote: So random gave me Illians, My first win in ffh2 was through them. Let’s see if I can think critically and not randomly about them. Ice tiles give +2 food. I am not sure how good this is since it doesn’t affect tundra and so on. I think the normal terrain is still better for the Illians. So I am going to guess that the only advantage to this is the fact that you get a combat bonus and cities with ice aren’t as bad as for other civs. Which means that maybe the deepening will harm everyone more than us? Well I hope I am right.
For Stasis I always prefer using it in the start due to mostly when I used to play Multiplayer and everyone did it in the start. I think it gives me a warrior + tech over most people if I use it in the start. I am not sure if its better be used at different moments.
Hmm exploration in the start. So that means I get to build roads and not forget about them in the middle of getting all those worker techs. I remember reading that people prefer having a worker tech over this tech. I am not sure about the difference to be honest. It’s not like we have a worker to start with .
Absolutely agree with your analysis of ice tiles. They are strictly weaker than river grassland tiles and equal to dry grassland tiles, even for the Illians (although, depending on your situation, they might be better than plains tiles).
Stasis first is a huge, huge economic bonus; although, I would normally recommend building a worker first, not a warrior (rare exceptions exist, but not at this start). It basically means you are starting 10 turns in front of everyone else. It's better in multiplayer, since presumably your opponents are not starting with a worker like high-level AI are (and you can delay it like 5 turns and still get it in before your opponents build a worker, increasing their chance of getting hurt by barbs, but AIs get bonus production, so you can't in singleplayer), but it matters even at higher levels, unless the AI is lucky enough to have the right resources for it's starting tech(s), which is only slightly likely, even at higher levels.
Quote:If we look at traits. Well I can see that we are charismatic. I didn’t care about traits in the start so it feels like I never knew his traits in some way. + 1 happy in all cities seems like a nice thing to get an extra population. The less experience needed for units also seem like a pretty nice touch. I wonder if that works with Arcane and hero promotions. Funny how I would have never noticed the connection if I was writing about the traits. Well that kind of adds Arcane to the mix. It increases the rate spell casters gain experience. I don’t know if that like makes them like heroes were they gain experience over time? Or does it mean that they get more experience from combat. Mobility seems like a nice touch to move them around. These traits I guess kind of give me an idea about what I should go for or tech. But let’s move onto the next point before I start mixing everything. :P
So by this post I hope provided nice information about my thinking and so on. I am still wondering how I should move the scout correctly and not have him die in 6 turns like I usually do :P . I also hope I don’t embarrass myself and the English isn’t too bad. I have hard time delivering information by writing.
Charismatic is an interesting trait. It's actually rather weak in BTS, but it is pretty good in FFH and EitB, since the promotions are much stronger than they are in BTS and the base strengths of most units are lower. The extra happy is also a nice boost. It synergies well with Arcane (and with the Hero promotion). The way the Arcane trait works is that it adds the promotion "Potency" to all arcane units (and gives half price on Mage Guild and another building? I forget). All arcane units for any civ passively and randomly gain XP, usually amounting to one experience point every few turns (gamespeed dependent, and much less in base FFH than EitB). Arcane units with the potency promotion, however, gain this passive XP at a much, much faster rate. This is very useful if you plan on going up the Arcane line (which I highly recommend you do eventually).
Your English is fine.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
I would most likely settle on the plains hill 1 South-West of the Remnants. The Remnants are an incredible tile; settling on a Plains Hill gives an extra point of production per turn in the city tile (very useful); two food resources (the rice and the cow) are nice; the oasis is quite good early game and is always a decent tile to work, and from the looks of it, you pick up a few riverside grassland tiles (the best non-special tiles) and a riverside grassland wine, which is a good tile to have in FFH (not as good in BTS, but still decent). This is a very good capital site, and it's a shame it will take you a few turns to move there, but that is not too big a drawback in my mind (especailly since you will get that first worker out super early anyways.
This is where starting with agriculture would be much better than starting with Exploration. With the Remnants and the plains hill plant, you will get a worker out before you can finish researching agriculture, and long before you can research Animal Husbandry, Crafting, or Mining. Thanksfully, your worker will be able to at least road tiles. Actually, because there is also an Oasis, I would think about growing to size 2, then starting on a worker. I would not do so without simming out the results or at least doing some calculations on the back of an envelope (and while that is normally an expression, I actually have a habit of making civ calculations on the back of a few old envelopes I never got around to recycling)
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
(January 21st, 2013, 15:00)flug__auto Wrote: About Statis, I'm not sure, but it starts Golden Age too? If so, it is better to delay it to switch civics.
I believe that you are thinking of the Balseraph's world spell, which is a free double length golden age (super awesome, and I agree that it would be better to save it for later in such a situation, but Stasis does not do this)
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Sorry if I am coming off as over excited, but I haven't actually played a game of FFH in ages because of school and I miss it.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Unless you think that Stasis gives a Golden Age. That is not correct. It is much better-it prevents all of the other nations from building or researching anything for a set number if turns (game speed dependent). And it "counts as a golden age" as in it means you need to sacrifice two great people for your next one? Who cares, even if that is true?
No it counts as a GA (in EitB 9, which this is being played on) in the same way that revelry counts Asa GA.
I played Ilians like a week ago, so maybe you didn't play the latest version
If patria is around you should settle near it, I didn't see it in the pics
Erebus in the Balance - a FFH Modmod based around balancing and polishing FFH for streamlined competitive play.
Unless you think that Stasis gives a Golden Age. That is not correct. It is much better-it prevents all of the other nations from building or researching anything for a set number if turns (game speed dependent). And it "counts as a golden age" as in it means you need to sacrifice two great people for your next one? Who cares, even if that is true?
No it counts as a GA (in EitB 9, which this is being played on) in the same way that revelry counts Asa GA.
I played Ilians like a week ago, so maybe you didn't play the latest version
If patria is around you should settle near it, I didn't see it in the pics
Yeah, I didn't know that, but I still think it's worth using right away.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
