Planetfall PBEM 2

[Maniac]

Did you get actual fungal growth, or did only native life appear? The fungal bloom prevention refers only to the xenofungus feature spreading.

[Iskender]

Did you get actual fungal growth, or did only native life appear? The fungal bloom prevention refers only to the xenofungus feature spreading.

Ok then, I only got the shrimp spawn, thought it was the same thing.

[Sareln]

Everything alright Maniac?

[Maniac]

Just too tired to play. Sent on.

[Iskender]

OK I'm ready to deal collateral with Interceptors. Do we have to update any files?

Also, I've just had 4th spawn in a row on the same tile. Might be a bug or I'm 1-in-3500 unlucky.

[Maniac]

The lack of collateral for interceptors is intended. To make this more clear, I'm currently thinking to - in a mainline patch, not one for this PBEM - start the thunderbolt and penetrator with a promotion that is required to pick the Barrage special ability.

We've all had an instance where we thought the game would function differently than it actually does. First and foremost Mardoc thinking he'd get super powerful trenches. Just like I feel we shouldn't increase trench yield because of Mardoc's confusion, I don't think we should change the rules here because of yours.

[Iskender]

We've all had an instance where we thought the game would function differently than it actually does.

Tell me about it, I found out that submarines lose invisible after pillaging (is it even mentioned anywhere in the game?) after I had discovered the techs and built, promoted and placed the units. And had made a decision whom to mess with with all its consequences. I salvaged it the best I could and didn't complain. Nor I'm complaining now. My point, as you'll see, is different.

A few posts earlier I reported a possible bug with fungal blooms. You offered an explanation and I accepted it, after all you know best. However, after suffering 4 spawns in a row I took a closer look and noticed that something's wrong:

This is turn 2143:



This is turn 2144, after another spawn:



It turns out that each time native life spawns the counter gets lowered. So the base did prevent a fungal bloom, but at the same time native life had spawned. Fungal bloom is defined in civilopedia as involving "multiple native units appear on one square". Now it turns out though, that it consists of two separate phenomena - unit spawn and feature spread, only one of which is affected by the "Prevent" option. The one that is much less of a nuisance. Now tell me which of the following happened:

1) You purposefully made the culture fungal bloom prevention not affect unit spawn (and made a misleading civilopedia entry)

2) It is a yet another instance of 'the game functioning differently' and you have just invented a rule that it was supposed to be like that all along because it's what works for you

Well, it doesn't work for me. As you can infer from the screenshots, this base alone has "prevented" 11 blooms. That's a lot of worms, at one point I even lost a city to worms from this particular plot. Once again, I'm not complaining, I reported it when I considered it worth reporting and moved on.

Back to the Interceptors. Like many other units they can take Barrage. However, unlike any other unit, this gives them nothing. If I promote i.e. a Destroyer with Barrage, it starts dealing collateral damage. If I promote an Interceptor with Barrage, I'll have wasted a special ability. Once again - reported, dismissed.

There is a chance that, even at this point, I would have let it slide, after all we don't "change the rules" for anyone's sake.

Except that we do:

http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthrea...#pid305671

If my point is not yet clear, here it is summarised in points:

1) We are playing a mod that is underdeveloped
2) The mod's creator is playing
3) The playing mod's creator judges what are the rules of the game
4) All decisions made by the playing mod's creator are in his favour.

[Mardoc]

1) We are playing a mod that is underdeveloped
2) The mod's creator is playing
3) The playing mod's creator judges what are the rules of the game
4) All decisions made by the playing mod's creator are in his favour.

I think this is a little strong. Of course Maniac has a vision for what Planetfall should be, and is playing according to that vision. And of course he wants the game in actuality to match his vision of it.

That has the consequence that our misunderstandings are generally considered not worth changing the game for, while his misunderstandings are, because his entire goal is to make the code match his understanding of the game. And everyone else's understanding to match his, as well. But I don't think that's malice. I think that's him valuing the mod more than the PBEM.

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That said, I'm not so attached to this game that I want to keep playing if you're not enjoying yourself for whatever reason, whether I agree with you or not. I'd be fine with calling it a draw or an incomplete or whatever and moving on to other games.

[Maniac]

That has the consequence that our misunderstandings are generally considered not worth changing the game for, while his misunderstandings are, because his entire goal is to make the code match his understanding of the game. And everyone else's understanding to match his, as well. But I don't think that's malice. I think that's him valuing the mod more than the PBEM.

What action would according to you be to the benefit of the PBEM? Would it be better for the PBEM if trenches got boosted, if invisible submarines could pillage you with impunity, if multiple formers could build bunkers, if Iskender could bomb you with collateral interceptors, etcetera?

[Mardoc]

What action would according to you be to the benefit of the PBEM? Would it be better for the PBEM if trenches got boosted, if invisible submarines could pillage you with impunity, if multiple formers could build bunkers, if Iskender could bomb you with collateral interceptors, etcetera?

No, probably not any of this. Well, except possibly turning formers into bunkers en masse. The trouble isn't that your decisions are wrong - it's that they're surprising.

What would be better for the PBEM is if the Civilopedia was clear about the difference between a Trench and a Trench, if Worker actions were listed with their required time, if Interceptors couldn't even take a promotion they couldn't use, if the stealth rules were explained clearly in game, etc. And most crucially, if whatever Sareln, Iskender, and I are planning next, we could know for sure that it's going to work the way we expect.

It's painful to make plans around a flawed understanding of the game, and only to discover it's incorrect after you've already spent the investment. I dunno, I didn't expect perfection, but I also didn't expect quite this many plans to be based on misunderstandings.

The main reason I'm ok with calling it a draw here is because I don't see any way to know that things will work the way I think they will, short of having you read my lurker thread as I go and point out misunderstandings. And I don't see any way to have you do that and the game remain fair.