(January 28th, 2013, 20:41)DaveV Wrote: Well, it is ... epic.
1. The vamps can't reach their Ancient Tower on turn 1; everyone else can. Vamps also can't settle on iron plains hill first turn.
2. Vamps can get all 6 (visible) resources and only 2 coast by settling south (but still coastal). Iron plains hill gives 3 resources, is not coastal, 0 coast tiles.
3. Elves have to SIP to get all 5 visible resources, giving 4 coast tiles. Iron plains hill gives 5 resources, is coastal, 9 coast tiles.
4. Illians can get 6 resources by moving NW. 2 coast tiles, but not coastal. Iron plains hill gives 3 resources, is coastal, 4 coast tiles.
5. Balseraphs must SIP to get all 5 resources, but get 5 coast tiles. Iron plains hill gives 4 resources, is coastal, 4 coast tiles.
6. Sidar can SIP or move N to get 5 resources. 5 and 4 coast tiles, respectively. Iron plains hill gives 4 resources, is not coastal, 2 coast tiles, 1 lake.
Thank you for that analysis! I am almost certainly going to adjust the starting positions, and it helps a lot to have another person look over it (and to have someone actually write all that down-at the time when I finally finished, I needed a break).
P.S. Is epic a good thing? Is the map too flavorful? I tried to keep the main continent mostly free of flavor.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
(January 28th, 2013, 21:06)Merovech Wrote: Is epic a good thing? Is the map too flavorful? I tried to keep the main continent mostly free of flavor.
Yes, it's good. I really like all the flavor. There's a chance the game will end without the players seeing a significant portion, though.
I'd love it if they ended up exploring all of the map, but it wouldn't bother me to have some parts missed. A lot of the islands were made in the beginning and I placed them partially for my enjoyment while making the map.
Also, thanks for the heads up about the goblin fort feature/bug. I was aware of it, but it's always good to have a reminder.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
I tried playing as the Calabim: they start with Pacificism instead of Nationhood. On turn 36, disaster struck: one of my warriors was destroyed by an invisible Allip. This is very un-fun flavor.
(January 29th, 2013, 04:41)DaveV Wrote: I tried playing as the Calabim: they start with Pacificism instead of Nationhood. On turn 36, disaster struck: one of my warriors was destroyed by an invisible Allip. This is very un-fun flavor.
. That should not happen. I will have to change something...
Also, thanks about the starting civic. Do you know how to change that?
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
(January 29th, 2013, 04:41)DaveV Wrote: I tried playing as the Calabim: they start with Pacificism instead of Nationhood. On turn 36, disaster struck: one of my warriors was destroyed by an invisible Allip. This is very un-fun flavor.
. That should not happen. I will have to change something...
Also, thanks about the starting civic. Do you know how to change that?
What Commodore said. Under the BeginPlayer section,
I ran this under More Naval AI, since EitB v.8 wouldn't work with the minor leaders, and I didn't want to mess up the pitboss game by switching to EitB v.9. So it may be an artifact of a different AI; in any case, I'd recommend taking Water Walking away from the Allips. Two of them were still sitting at home in Hell, one had come to attack me, and the other had killed off the Sidar.
(January 29th, 2013, 04:41)DaveV Wrote: I tried playing as the Calabim: they start with Pacificism instead of Nationhood. On turn 36, disaster struck: one of my warriors was destroyed by an invisible Allip. This is very un-fun flavor.
. That should not happen. I will have to change something...
Also, thanks about the starting civic. Do you know how to change that?
What Commodore said. Under the BeginPlayer section,
I ran this under More Naval AI, since EitB v.8 wouldn't work with the minor leaders, and I didn't want to mess up the pitboss game by switching to EitB v.9. So it may be an artifact of a different AI; in any case, I'd recommend taking Water Walking away from the Allips. Two of them were still sitting at home in Hell, one had come to attack me, and the other had killed off the Sidar.
I thought I had taken it away, to be honest. I wonder if, because it is a natural promotion, it got re-added when you loaded the save. I will have to check to make sure that does not happen in EitB v9. If it does, I will have to change the base unit.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
(January 30th, 2013, 21:13)gtAngel Wrote: I didn't expect a hero unit when I picked Sidar. I still want to keep it though
Edit: Of course I will respect Merovech's decision. If you feel it's too unbalancing a factor then you can take it away. Do keep in mind though that if I settle my hero I'm going to be down a potentially 100 experience unit all game long. While settling has benefits, being able to use the scout to clear out enemies from the get go is very strong as well. (And of course the easily acquired Aeron's chosen.)
Yes, it is not a straightforward decision... I will have to think.
Idea: Level 3 scout (8xp) with the promotions used on C1 and D1 and free Sentry, Mobility, and Valor promotions. Not an automatic Wane, but still possibly one. Cons: Weaker for everyone else as well; possibly could become a wane even earlier than a Hero, although unlikely.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
