[SPOILERS] Lewger goes for the Bigwyn

[Bigger]

LURKERS: any suggestions for heroic epic renamed of mayapan? there is rice, sheep, and spices.
are there any new zealand epics? I Japannesse epic would work, or I will probably just go with Don Quixote if I don't hear a better suggestion (hills=windmills, I guess, although we're still quite far from that tech)

How about Popol Vuh? Mayan theme and all that jazz.

score, thats perfect. I named it song of Roland but I'll renamed next time I'm in game.

[Qgqqqqq]

LURKERS: any suggestions for heroic epic renamed of mayapan? there is rice, sheep, and spices.
are there any new zealand epics? I Japannesse epic would work, or I will probably just go with Don Quixote if I don't hear a better suggestion (hills=windmills, I guess, although we're still quite far from that tech)

Bah, too late.

Nah there's not really any NZ epics, the closest would be the legends of Maui (link: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C4%81ui...#section_2) but that's very different.from the epics here -for one Hong its more a collection of tales then anything else, for another (because we went without a written language for so long) is that it was never compiled into one specific account like the others, remaining more a vague outline then a epic.

[Old Harry]

Wow! How could so much stuff happen in just 12 hours!

Re: Brick - he settled t0, so either he didn't have a strat res or he's moved his capital since?

I'd guess next tech needs to be currency if we're at 40% breakeven, it'll take a while though, won't it?

Nice work on taking Popul Vuh! You just need a fort to the east of it and it becomes a canal...

And I'm completely behind the plans for gifting Iron to Pindicooter and the attack on Azza - I'll try and do some power graph analysis this week unless Waterbat beats me to it.

[Brian Shanahan]

score, thats perfect. I named it song of Roland but I'll renamed next time I'm in game.

I feel like I'm going through some kind of Pokemon scenario here with the city names. "Gotta name 'em all! Lewgwer Cities!"

[Bigger]

Wow! How could so much stuff happen in just 12 hours!

Re: Brick - he settled t0, so either he didn't have a strat res or he's moved his capital since?

I'd guess next tech needs to be currency if we're at 40% breakeven, it'll take a while though, won't it?

Nice work on taking Popul Vuh! You just need a fort to the east of it and it becomes a canal...

And I'm completely behind the plans for gifting Iron to Pindicooter and the attack on Azza - I'll try and do some power graph analysis this week unless Waterbat beats me to it.

ooh, yeah, its a grassland tile so that will hurt, but it might be worth forting it. especially once we have a bigger navy.

we're 6 turns until we re-invade azza. I don't see how we won't pull off recapturing Beowulf - we'll have 9 axes (including 1 shock axe and one CR2 axe), 2 horse archers, 1-2 spears, 3ish chariots, and a few archers too if we get desperate. the power graph analysis will be useful, though, to decide if we can push on or need to stop after 1 city.

yeah, we're gonna limp to currency . But the gold will help, and we get our religious shrine in 10 turns, which will help a lot too. plus, libraries in the iliad and volsung soon. (gilgamesh as soon as we can).

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So I thought I'd be fun to give a little mini-report on azza's empire, to give lurkers an idea of what we are up against, and maybe even to give him some constructive criticism once the game is over.

1. Beowulf:

as you can see, he has a shock axe, 2 praets, 2 spears, 2 chariots and a warrior. we know he has at least one more praet near the presets, but it won't make it in time. he has only reinforced the second praet in the last 10-15 turns, so I don't expect to see more than 1-2 units by the time we invade.

we just lost city visibility this turn, but he has 2 workers building a farm north of the rice. and one worker building a mine on the hill. they should both be finished by the time we capture the city, which is very nice. I don't expect him to leave any workers still vulnerable by the time we're ready, but we'll see.

he doesnt have a monument yet. I don't really understand why he even bothered researching mysticism, he hasn't built any that I can tell. he is ORG, so he gets double libraries, and is likely building one here. we attack in 6 turns, though, so he'll have to complete it in the next two to expand his borders in time to hamper our attack.

his composition is perfect for an axe rush. the shock axe will be a problem, will take hopefully only 2 axes to get rid of it. then we'll have slightly better than coin flip odds vs the 2 chariots, and the rest of the units will fall easily to our axes.
we'll have 2 horse archers, 2 chariots (one shock with 9 exp, hopefully can cleean up for 10th exp to unlock heroic epic), 1 or 2 spears, and 4-5 archers to clean up if needed. should fall easily.

2. the presets:

not much to say, its a garbage city - food/hammer pump or units. I would like to raze it again, hehe, but we won't have any spare forces to divert this direction, so we may not need to.

The fact that this was founded twice shows the desperate situation we've put him in. the only food he has to steal from his capital. 1nw would claim the stone, for better production at least even if he doesnt need stone, and more importantly - horses. he doesnt have horses atm, will wish he had more chariots or HA once we invade with a horde of axes, and would also make founding the sheep/horse city we'll found eventually more difficult for us. that spot would have also picked up 3 lighthouseable lake tiles. he's had to found this one because its closer to his capital and easier to defend.

3. his core:

ok, here's the good stuff. he's got a crapload of food, gold, and gems. note that gems don't show up in the trade screen, so he's trading them away to someone we haven't met. Commodore, I'd guess. this is really yummy, but his capital is on a hill so I don't think we'll be able to get it until construction.

All his food is shared by another city, which partly explains his slow growth. ok, we're guilty of that too .
The other cause - he has a granary in muse, but none of the other cities we can see.
he has a library in all 3 core cities now - which explains where his hammers have gone. note that he is org, so he gets those libraries at half price - so he can 2 pop whip them after 1 turn, or 1 pop whip them after 15 hammers. he had several whips a few turns ago, I think this is where they went.

the 2 cottages around his capital were just built in the last turn or two. they are the only 2 cottages in his empire. thats a big part of the reason is GNP is lagging behind. (he's ahead of us in tech because of our religious beeline, and also his maintenence costs are much less).

I really think he should have built more cottages, and much sooner. Tenacious D should be littered with them - it has plenty of food, certainly doesnt need the farm 1 N. he has the food for a nice representation/environmentalism economy - but he needs constitution and liberalism for that, which is a long way off for everyone. The living end is also sub par - it has a cottage and a farm, but the cottage is next to a lake and the farm a river. if he reversed those 2 improvements, the cottage would get a +1 commerce and the farm would serve the same purpose.

the living end has 2 crabs and could grow vertical faster if he had a granary in place (his capital, too).

4. wombats:

I don't like this city at all. it will be quite awhile before we get a navy in place and can invade here, but if and when we do, we'll have to raze it. He founded this city after we had already made peace and he controlled Beowulf (and its Iron), so i don't understand why he had to settle on top of the copper (and I think he had an iron gift from commodore at the time anyway). it will pick up the clams when the border pops, but will be starved for hammers, for a long long time. If he settles 1N, it is such a better city - 1) it gets rid of the jungle tile w/o having to chop it 2) it can work the shared clams from living in to grow much faster, and whip out a granary 3) it can mine the copper, for a nice hammer tile to get shit done 4) when the borders pop, it still gets the clams but also picks up fish, which instead will be orphaned with his current setup.

5. interpol:


we don't have current maps on interpol, so I don't know for sure where it is. This is my best guess.
azza has ivory. he could be getting it from commodore in exchange for the gems, but this is still the best location for interpol from the options he has. I would settle W, SW of the ivory, which would be crap until the borders expand, but then pick up the fish and ivory. I dunno, he may have settled on one of the ivorys .


If I have time, I'll do another report on serdoa later.

[Molach]

Nice updates. Think I picked the right team to follow - easy to see whats going on and probably first team to engage two opponents already....

Hopefully Serdoa will treat the loss of the city as natural and inevitable, and not get into WHEOOH-mode over it. Mabye so since barbs built it and he got a free worker out of it and mabye did not even lose any units taking it. You will clash later but should be easier to block/deal with him later on, when southern border is pacified...

About tech, real choice is construction for military or currency for econ? Have to agree with currency.

Is it a good idea to put some hammers into diverse units in the build-queue so they can be whipped in an emergency? Am so used to playing against AI where I generally can spot an attack a long way off and prepare, not used to these unpredictable humans....

About the river farm and lake cottage...as long as he works both it really shouldn't matter...farm gets the +1 instead.

[Sareln]

4. wombats:

I don't like this city at all. it will be quite awhile before we get a navy in place and can invade here, but if and when we do, we'll have to raze it. He founded this city after we had already made peace and he controlled Beowulf (and its Iron), so i don't understand why he had to settle on top of the copper (and I think he had an iron gift from commodore at the time anyway). it will pick up the clams when the border pops, but will be starved for hammers, for a long long time. If he settles 1N, it is such a better city - 1) it gets rid of the jungle tile w/o having to chop it 2) it can work the shared clams from living in to grow much faster, and whip out a granary 3) it can mine the copper, for a nice hammer tile to get shit done 4) when the borders pop, it still gets the clams but also picks up fish, which instead will be orphaned with his current setup.

The fish are orphaned with 1N of wombats as well, though it could share an additional clams w/ the living end. Thanks for the reports. Keep'em coming .

[Bigger]

Nice updates. Think I picked the right team to follow - easy to see whats going on and probably first team to engage two opponents already....

Hopefully Serdoa will treat the loss of the city as natural and inevitable, and not get into WHEOOH-mode over it. Mabye so since barbs built it and he got a free worker out of it and mabye did not even lose any units taking it. You will clash later but should be easier to block/deal with him later on, when southern border is pacified...

About tech, real choice is construction for military or currency for econ? Have to agree with currency.

Is it a good idea to put some hammers into diverse units in the build-queue so they can be whipped in an emergency? Am so used to playing against AI where I generally can spot an attack a long way off and prepare, not used to these unpredictable humans....

About the river farm and lake cottage...as long as he works both it really shouldn't matter...farm gets the +1 instead.

Thanks. I'm enjoying the updates, it gives me something to do since Lewwyn has been playing the turns lately, and more importantly I catch more stuff that Lewwyn might have missed by logging in and screwing around with stuff for pics (he catches more stuff I miss, though). But its nice to hear that lurkers are enjoying it . This is really a fun map, if I was lurking and not on a team I would have begged Krill for a copy so I could play a SP game with it .

Tech wise - our maintenence costs are getting ridiculous. the mayan city is a net loss of only 1.5 (-4.5 cost, +2 trade routes, 1 commerce from sheep) but we'll get more when we get back Beowulf. the real hit is our military. and we just got 1 inflation too . SO we really don't have a choice but to research currency after Math. The real question is what comes next.

We've been leaning towards metal casting, for the cheap IND forges (+2 happy w/ silver and gold too ). I'm wondering if we shouldnt slot in monarchy first - hook up the wines, but also so we can do a 2 civic revolt and finally convert to organize religion, which will make the forges get built quicker anyway. with the extra 4 happy from wines, forges, and MP, we can grow Gilgamesh quite tall, that will be nice.
After that, it might be worth beelining literature for heroic epic and TGL.

as for your other question - right now, azza can't really surprise us. we have vision pretty deeply into the noman's lands around maths and Beowulf. Once we recapture Beowulf, that will be a different story. Axes and archers provide a pretty good defense, but we may put a turn into a spear there, sure. He'll only have copper connected though once we take the Beowulf Iron. (although it occurs to me that he could be trading his gems for horses with commodore and we wouldnt know it, since we haven't made contact with commodore yet).


btw, technically azza beat us to "first to engage two opponents".. he DOW on Serdoa 4 turns before we did.. his war also lasted less than a full turn, but I don't think he got a city out of it, hehe .

[Bigger]

4. wombats:

I don't like this city at all. it will be quite awhile before we get a navy in place and can invade here, but if and when we do, we'll have to raze it. He founded this city after we had already made peace and he controlled Beowulf (and its Iron), so i don't understand why he had to settle on top of the copper (and I think he had an iron gift from commodore at the time anyway). it will pick up the clams when the border pops, but will be starved for hammers, for a long long time. If he settles 1N, it is such a better city - 1) it gets rid of the jungle tile w/o having to chop it 2) it can work the shared clams from living in to grow much faster, and whip out a granary 3) it can mine the copper, for a nice hammer tile to get shit done 4) when the borders pop, it still gets the clams but also picks up fish, which instead will be orphaned with his current setup.

The fish are orphaned with 1N of wombats as well, though it could share an additional clams w/ the living end. Thanks for the reports. Keep'em coming .

d'oh, you're right. He'd have to settle on the gems to claim the fish, which would be worse. Still think 1N is much, much better though.