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Diplomacy Master Thread- Helping Your Opponents Beat Themselves

#1,401
February 4th, 2013, 13:25
Sullla Offline
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It's been a week with no word from CivPlayers. I think we need to send them something asking for a response.

We also had a message from CivFanatics that we have not responded to as yet.
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#1,402
February 4th, 2013, 13:29
scooter Offline
The Lesser Evil
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From CivPlayers:

CivPlayers Wrote:Dear scooter,

Regarding our Open Borders agreement, it seems that factions in our government do not see any advantage in signing it.
Perhaps we can find a mutually beneficial agreement that can help me shut them up? At least for the time being.
What do you think?

Sincerely yours,

Decebal

This smells fishy to me. They're screwing with us right now. Let me think about this.
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#1,403
February 4th, 2013, 13:39 (This post was last modified: February 4th, 2013, 13:40 by Merovech.)
Merovech Offline
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I don't like the way Decebal is presenting himself as a "Good Cop" and the rest of his team as "Bad Cops."
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
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#1,404
February 4th, 2013, 13:43
kalin Offline
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My knee-jerk reaction is: we do not see anything either, so if you want OB let us know, kthxbye. We probably shouldn't do this. If we weren't already we should drop to cautious and maybe re-evaluate a bit defensive/strategic options.

Kalin
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#1,405
February 4th, 2013, 13:43 (This post was last modified: February 4th, 2013, 13:44 by novice.)
novice Offline
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They're fishing for concessions obviously. Just cut to the chase in a businesslike manner. Ask how many 1-commerce trade routes they would get upgraded from open borders, say we'll offer the same info, and we'll split the profits 50/50 using gpt.

I.e. if they'll earn 3gpt from OB and we'll earn 7gpt we can offer 2gpt for OB. For all I know they'll earn more than us from OB though. smile
I have to run.
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#1,406
February 4th, 2013, 13:54
scooter Offline
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I'm just rolling my eyes at the "factions in our government" nonsense when there's just 4 players on the team roster, and I've already spoken to 2 of them. There's no real reason that would have taken a week to say, and after all that time they managed to side-step the NAP confirmation it seems. Just strikes me as stalling.
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#1,407
February 4th, 2013, 13:56 (This post was last modified: February 4th, 2013, 13:57 by Sullla.)
Sullla Offline
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No advantage is nonsense; they get ten 2 commerce international trade routes from Open Borders with our team. We are certainly not paying them for the right to Open Borders when everyone else will do so for free.

I would let them know that we're not getting a very positive vibe from their team, and they haven't shown much interest in being friendly thus far. We'd probably best scout out the border region with this team more and be prepared to defend ourselves when that initial NAP deal wears off. (I think it's Turn 120, right?)

We have zero desire to fight these guys, but we have to be realistic at the same time.

EDIT: We'd better be damn sure to pin them down about that NAP agreement. I smell a rat here too.
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#1,408
February 4th, 2013, 14:04 (This post was last modified: February 4th, 2013, 14:06 by Tyrmith.)
Tyrmith Offline
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The NAP is till turn 110+10 turns warning, so 120 per this post.

There's also the fact that they are ensuring that we're blind to their graphs as well.
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#1,409
February 4th, 2013, 14:05
kjn Offline
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(February 4th, 2013, 13:43)novice Wrote: They're fishing for concessions obviously. Just cut to the chase in a businesslike manner. Ask how many 1-commerce trade routes they would get upgraded from open borders, say we'll offer the same info, and we'll split the profits 50/50 using gpt.

I.e. if they'll earn 3gpt from OB and we'll earn 7gpt we can offer 2gpt for OB. For all I know they'll earn more than us from OB though. smile

My understanding of the mechanics:

We can get up to 7 commerce per turn, since we have more cities than they do, 20 potential trade routes (2 per city and 10 cities), but only 12 filled (5 to WPC and 7 to the Germans).

If they don't have Currency and don't have any trading partner yet, they will earn 7 commerce per turn by getting trade routes to us.

If they have Currency but no trading partner, they will earn 10 commerce per turn, since they have 14 potential trade routes.

If they already have a trading partner, then it's true that they won't get much commerce from trade with us, until they get Currency at least.

Screw it. If they were willing to give some clue of what they were after I might be willing to negotiate with them, but OBs are in and of themselves a mutually beneficial agreement. So get the NAP agreement nailed down, get a trade route to CFC, and laugh as we speed up even more.
Furthermore, I consider that forum views should be fluid in width
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#1,410
February 4th, 2013, 14:05 (This post was last modified: February 4th, 2013, 14:10 by Ceiliazul.)
Ceiliazul Offline
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(February 4th, 2013, 13:56)Sullla Wrote: EDIT: We'd better be damn sure to pin them down about that NAP agreement. I smell a rat here too.

I smell settlers incoming. Can we say that settling on our lake would be an act of war? The only motivation to do so would be aggressive, given that we've already established there's no economic benefits in settling there.
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