As a French person I feel like it's my duty to explain strikes to you. - AdrienIer

Create an account  

 
Dude, where's my civ? [spoilers]

Hmm, I probably messed something up with Decius if you didn't get the alignment changing event...
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Reply

It's okay Merovech. Bob said it's a pbem problem that interferes with that event. I hadn't planned to start as neutral due to the prophet events, but it's not really a big deal.

~~~~

One of the earliest strategic decisions I have to make is when to cast my worldspell. One common play is to use it on the first turn for an early boost, but a lack of premium tiles to work early on makes this choice considerably weaker.

The other common move is to allow other players to grow their capitals to size three first, so that the worldspell knocks them down to size one. This is probably what I'll do, paying special attention to the Illians with their "compensated" start. If other players have the same early food resources that I do, this could set them back on growth for several turns. Some may also delay growing to size three, but this has a similar effect so it's fine with me either way.

For now, I'm going to go with the second option, but I'm keeping an open mind about whether to delay even further. If I can get a second city fast enough, I may prefer to use the worldspell then, or at some other point.

I expect that the other teams will all get a worker first, due to my worldspell and their starting units. Teams that start with Agriculture will probably get an early tech lead, as well as teams that are successful with lairs.
Active in:
FFH-20: Jonas Endain of the Clan of Embers
EITB Pitboss 1: Clan/Elohim/Calabim with Mardoc and Thoth



Reply

The Goal

[Image: PediaDivineEssence.JPG]

The Plan

The Calabim are one of the most powerful civilizations in the game, and they have a number of useful tools to accomplish a variety of goals. Their unique buildings are powerful, their unique units are powerful, and they aren't going to fall to pieces if something unexpected happens.

Here's the summary for what I plan to do with them:
  • The expectation was that this map would involve a lot of water, or at least enough that the Lanun were banned. Organized Calabim is hands down the second best water civ, with half price lighthouses and GMs that provide the hammers that coastal cities are desperate for.
  • The map was to be "big buildery." This favors civilizations that can create and maintain a solid expansion snowball, and improves the chances that late-game toys will become relevant. These are things that the Calabim are good at.
  • The primary peaceful victory option, Tower, will require Omniscience. This improves the viability of going for an Altar victory, which requires Divine Essence instead. Fewer techs needed to obtain Divine Essence are in the "very expensive" category, which is important because the tower of divination national wonder can only be used to avoid one of them. In addition, the Infernal Grimoire wonder is on the same tech path as Divine Essence, and can potentially be used to avoid researching ANY very expensive techs.
  • Divine Essence gives some other valuable tools, which for the Calabim means Vampire Lords and Blood of the Phoenix(a very powerful ritual). Vampire Lords are immortal units that can also transform into Liches, and both of them can summon Flesh Golems. Each vampire lord can also be added to flesh golems repeatedly, once per turn, making it possible to obtain 8 god-tier units at a reasonable cost.
  • Cultists, the water walking priest of the Octopus Overlords religion, is great for water maps. The Altar of the Luonnotar is great for Cultists. Druids upgraded from cultists can summon Krakens, which are great for flesh golems. There are synergies all over the place with this.


Outline of Planned Game Path
  • Expand to a small number of cities, and get the essential worker techs out of the way. Utilize godking for production and emphasize commerce as much as possible. Attempt to capture griffons and use them for toroidal circumnavigation.
  • Research Code of Laws, Sailing, and Message from the Deep. Adopt aristocracy for commerce and settle cities to take advantage of it.
  • Build the Great Lighthouse and settle offshore cities to take advantage of it. Use slavery if necessary to build governor's manors in every city. Research the next technologies needed for empire development, such as sanitation, trade, and feudalism.
  • Build a lot of cultists, and settle a lot of cities, especially coastal cities. Work on building Altar layers, and maximizing trade route income. If it's feasible to do so, switch out of aristograrianism.
  • If possible, use the Tower of Divination for Commune with Nature and upgrade four cultists to druids. Research Mind Stapling and switch to Ashen Veil. Build the Infernal Grimoire and use it for Divine Essence, then research Malevolent Designs the slow way when I'm ready for Liches.


This is still pretty rough but it's what I have so far. Obviously the specific steps will be adjusted to circumstances and whatever my opponents do.
Active in:
FFH-20: Jonas Endain of the Clan of Embers
EITB Pitboss 1: Clan/Elohim/Calabim with Mardoc and Thoth



Reply

Hey, do you still have your treasure chest?
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Reply

(February 7th, 2013, 22:12)Merovech Wrote: Hey, do you still have your treasure chest?






Placing it at the bottom of a lake may have been a problem.
Active in:
FFH-20: Jonas Endain of the Clan of Embers
EITB Pitboss 1: Clan/Elohim/Calabim with Mardoc and Thoth



Reply

*sigh* At least it happened to everyone.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.

1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.

2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.

3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.

4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Reply

I always seem to skip on summarizing the other players, so I'll try to go ahead and get that taken care of over the next few days.

I'll start with gtAngel, who is probably the easiest to analyze because he has the least amount of history here on RB.

gtAngel
Shekinah of the Sidar
Arcane + Creative
Mana: shadow, enchantment, spirit
Starting Tech: Ancient Chants (+exploration)

[Image: Shekinah.png]

Player Overview:
gtAngel seems to have a decent grasp of the mechanics of the game, but a lack of pbem/multiplayer experience. He probably isn't the most skilled of my four opponents, but should not be underestimated either. After all, that's basically where my skills were during FFH-9. The majority of the info available on gtAngel comes from his helpful civ summaries he recently posted. While there are some obvious places that could be improved, and he's missed some of the important things that make certain civs strong, my impression overall is that he may be unfamiliar with certain civs but has a fair amount of single player experience with several of them.

There is a strong possibility that some of the information he posted was a deliberate misdirect, as the picks for this game had already been decided at the time. This was amusingly pointed out by HidingKneel:
(January 30th, 2013, 16:12)HidingKneel Wrote: gtAngel, could you share your thoughts on the Sidar?

I'd be very interested in knowing your thoughts on tech priorities, military readiness, weaknesses to be aware of, and so forth. You know, for our general edification mischief.

Here's is what he did post regarding them:
(spoilered for length)
(February 2nd, 2013, 00:20)gtAngel Wrote: Sidar

The Sidar only really have two benefits: Their specialists/great people are stronger, and their recon line has additional mobility. They can also turn level 6 units into settled great people, but that's a minor bonus most of the time, considering how difficult it is to get a level 6 unit and how unwilling most players are to part with such a powerful unit.

Economically, the Sidar are absolute masters of an aristofarm economy. Food is more important for the Sidar than for any other civilization, so the fact that one of the two monster economies is heavily farm based is amazing to them. Late in the game they may even choose to remove Aristocracy, considering that a half a specialist is worth more than 2 commerce if they can afford it.

In terms of military the Sidar have divide soul for their recon units - effective this gives Sidar recon units an additional two tiles of influence. In addition, this can be used to pass over obstructed terrain, so this can mean more than two more tiles of influence depending on terrain. Finally, this can be used to move while healing, albeit only two tiles a turn.

The Sidar can actually run any type of military they want though - divide soul is powerful, but not so much that it is automatically more powerful than anything else. The normal detriments to recon units apply - less powerful in a fight compared to a melee unit, and less powerful when fighting cities. This also means that Sidar who go for recon units normally need a second form a military - whether it be archery, melee, mounted, arcane, religious, or naval. Recon units are never enough alone to conquer someone, so a second area of power is usually gathered. Siege is strangely placed for Sidar - the construction tech allows for more farms (and thus more specialists), but catapults are very slow. So Sidar likes the tech, but not the unit. However, the niche of siege is only filled by fire/air mages and AV/OO priests for most of the game, so catapults might be grabbed for war.

In terms of useful tech, wonders, and civics, the real benefits come from great person benefits and anything that allows you to afford more great people. This means agrarianism, aristrocracy, mercantilism, caste system, happiness, healthiness, Guild of Hammers, Hall of Kings, Theatre of Dreams, The Great Library, guilds, liberty, philosophy, national epic, and scholarship are all very powerful for the Sidar (with culture boosters mainly good for a cultural victory.)

Religions are always an option, and all of them have some benefit. OO is generally good on water maps with and here is no different, AV brings powerful early collateral on units that can be hasted and given mobility, Empyrean gets very strong once you have Crown of Brilliance and Chalid, Order gives a lot of benefit to having lots of cities and works well as a secondary tech, Esus synergizes with recon units and has an archmage, Runes has very strong passives for early game and good early units.

The two leaders play similarly, and just excel at different areas. Sandalphon builds a little stronger, with his ability to churn out wonders and great people. Shekinah can snowball earlier with creative, and has the more powerful arcane branch, and so can be more aggressive but can also build very well.

I'll be disappointed if he hasn't skipped over what he intends to be his primary strategy, and the most likely candidate is Waning. So, again, he's sort of a wildcard. He's clearly not incompetent, but he lacks MP experience. Anything is possible.


Civilization and Leader Overview:
The Sidar are an interesting civ. In single player, they're one of the better ones if you play them aggressively, and I suspect that's a big reason gtAngel picked them. The AI can be relied upon to throw massive stacks of units at you, and the various AI quirks can be exploited to annihilate them for a lot of experience. This sort of strategy doesn't always work as smoothly in multiplayer, unless of course an opponent is relying on disposable summons. In FFH-5, Bobchillingworth's skeleton spam "wall of bone" was the perfect situation for Iskender's Sidar to take advantage, and the results were impressive.

(November 22nd, 2011, 17:54)Iskender Wrote: Sidar one-city economy:

[Image: civ4screenshot1010.jpg]
Screw gold mining - these 29 specialists trade derivatives with a three-figure leverage ratio. That made the cash flow!

The Sidar do have other advantages, as gtAngel pointed out in his instructional post, but Waning is where they can obtain a game-winning edge. I suspect that gtAngel will try to use passive arcane exp to get wanes, but I don't think the experience will accumulate fast enough to be worth the investment. He'd be better off levelling up his recon and other units, or even using a lot of confessors. Arcane units don't tend to fight in a lot of battles, due to the way summoning works.

As far as their other advantages go... The main economic one is the specialist boost. It's pretty strong, but the other Sidar leader does it better than the one gtAngel picked. I still expect him to use a decent number of specialists, but at least he won't get the PHI bonus for great people. Sandalphon probably would have been a stronger pick, and would have given him cheaper libraries, elder councils, forges, workers, and wonders.

Militarily, Sidar recon units are the kings of mobility. This could be troublesome if he's my neighbor, hawks will be even more important than usual. Their hero, Rathus Denmora, comes with a special weapon that can kill nearly any hero. Thankfully, the Calabim hero can get the immortal promotion pretty easily.

[Image: rathus.png]


What I plan to do:
I would prefer to befriend gtAngel for the majority of the game if possible. I can think of a few different ways that we can help each other, and his civ doesn't seem as well suited as mine is to a map like this one. If he's my neighbor, I'd also like to be able to expand without interference from his recon units.

Later on in the game, if he has been successful with the waning, his cities will be a tempting prize, and not just for me. I also see him as competition for the grimoire; sacrifice the weak is pretty strong for his civ.

Overall, I hope to learn more about him as a player and keep an eye out for opportunities.


Summary:
I'm not as worried about him as some of the others, but he could do pretty well vs opponents that use summons. The strategies he outlined for the various civs are not especially aggressive, so I don't really expect a lot of warmongering from him.

I expect him to settle fewer cities than the rest of us, and could be a decent ally.
Active in:
FFH-20: Jonas Endain of the Clan of Embers
EITB Pitboss 1: Clan/Elohim/Calabim with Mardoc and Thoth



Reply

Sorry for the lack of updates. There really hasn't been anything noteworthy to post in these early turns.

Until now.





I sent him a Calabim-style greeting:

[Image: AlexisGreeting.JPG]

We'll see how things go. Next turn, I plan to ask him not to explore any lairs near me.
Active in:
FFH-20: Jonas Endain of the Clan of Embers
EITB Pitboss 1: Clan/Elohim/Calabim with Mardoc and Thoth



Reply

In other news, I don't see any sites that I'd consider ideal for a second city. I'd hoped to figure this out before agriculture finished, because my next city site and my next tech choice are connected to each other.

The problem is that I need commerce. Badly. The Calabim are one of the more civilizations that suffer the most from a low commerce start, partly because they tend to eat their elders before they can set up any councils. Most of their advantages also don't appear until they research code of laws, and there are several technologies that are also high-priority on a map like this one.




To the east, there is some commerce, but it's probably not viable for awhile.



It's a puzzle, and I'll be behind if I can't figure out a good solution. The elves can skip mining and actually benefit from all the forests, and the Sidar/Balseraphs are creative which will help them a great deal if their surroundings are similar to mine.

In hindsight, I think I would have been better off moving my capital inland. Specifically, to the southwest. I definitely would have if I'd known about the wine resource 4 west of the wheat, but even without that there's more river and fewer forests.
Active in:
FFH-20: Jonas Endain of the Clan of Embers
EITB Pitboss 1: Clan/Elohim/Calabim with Mardoc and Thoth



Reply

Oh, I want to go ahead and put down some guesses about the map.

The demographics indicate that everybody started on the coast, or at least settled their capital with a significant amount of water in the BFC. A pangaea makes the most sense, with a vaguely pentagonal shape and the players scattered equally around it.

For some reason, players are often arranged on maps according to the turn order. With gtAngel roughly to my southwest, I suspect that everyone is arranged clockwise around the continent according to the turn order. That puts me at the top, with Hidingkneel as my southeastern neighbor. Selrahc would be to the distant SSE and Mardoc to the SSW.
Active in:
FFH-20: Jonas Endain of the Clan of Embers
EITB Pitboss 1: Clan/Elohim/Calabim with Mardoc and Thoth



Reply



Forum Jump: