EitB 0010 Wishlist/Progress

[Tasunke]

possible traits for Averax: (+ barbarian of course)

Agg/Cre, Agg/Exp, Rai/Cre, Rai/Exp, Agg/Sum, Agg/Spi?, Agg/Ingenuity, etc

My favorites are Agg/Exp, Agg/Ingenuity, and Rai/Cre (becaue who doesn't like Raider pyre zombies?)

the last one was from a purely mechanical standpoint. In any case, I think Agg/Ingenuity and Rai/Ingenuity might be the strongest cases imho.

for cases of unrestricted leaders ... does the game crash if a nation has two of the same traits? I mean, if an Ingenuity leader leads the Dwarves, assuming that Ingenuity becomes a Dwarven CivTrait.

Personally I prefer Agg/Expansive out of those three, because I think it has the best blend of lore and mechanics.

Now, as far as Vollanna is concerned, I think Raiders would make a great civtrait for her imho. TBH, I was always surprised that Faeryl was Arcane/Raiders ... such a trait schema, at least to me, doesn't seem very synergistic. I thought that perhaps, the developers thought the Svarts quite strong, and the leader was as a nerf. Either that or for some lore reason that temporarily escapes me.

Either way, I would certainly prefer if Faeryl Viconia had the stronger set of traits. Yet the Ljos already have Arcane/Expansive. And Spiritual/Creative (not that I'd think those traits would necessarily be fitting for Faeryl, but still ... the ljos have some good trait combos).

Perhaps Faeryl's traits could be Phi/Cre? hell, maybe even Phi/Cre/Rai since she is the freakin queen! (jk)

Seriously though, I would wonder as to what trait set she should be if not Rai/Arc.

In lieu of having such a solution, however, perhaps we can at least look at Volanna. She is seen riding a Nyxin, so perhaps she prefers speed. Nyxin, unlike Fyrdwells, to not require resources. And their fast speed and high withdrawal rates mean that they can take the highest offensive advantage of the Svartalphar worldspell. If Faeryl focuses on mages (backed by some assassins), then perhaps Volanna focuses on Nyxin. The obvious solution would be Tasunke's traits ... but why have two Tasunkes. Agg/Cre might work ... as who but the elves could be both aggressive and creative at the same time?

Raiders could certainly work ... especially if we are seeing a Recon/Mounted combo rather than a Recon/Mage combo. Raider might work better than aggressive for what we want here ... especially considering the high synergy we have already seen between aggressive and Sinister. One now wonders what Amelanchier's trats now are (I think Rai/Cre?) because Rai/Def could certainly work for Volanna.

In this case, I think Rai/Exp might actually be the better choice here. (at least for Volanna). What does FoL give? Health and happiness. What do the Svarts miss out on if they choose Esus instead? Health. Expansive gives Volanna an advantage in certain high food/low health situations, that other elves don't have (well, except for Thessa). I understand having one trait shared by multiple leaders can be irritating, but it can establish a lore-based pattern. In any case, I certainly don't mind playing the current Agg/Exp volanna, but I would probably opt for changing her to Rai/Exp.

And if Faeryl Viconia needs new traits to strengthen her Arcane position, then so be it. Honestly, Arcane/Charismatic sounds nice to me ... especially if the Illians are switched to Spiritual/Charismatic. (I think Enion is better with Spiritual Philosophical).


So the current state of affairs is this, me asking for Averax Agg/Exp and Volanna Rai/Exp.

In the future, we can look to see if Faeryl is more suited to Rai/Arc or Cha/Arc. And if maybe the Illians should have Spi/Cha.

I agree on the Elohim with Gekko -> Spi/Phi for Enion and Spi/Org for Ethne.

( honestly I could see Capria as being Spi/Org ... but I think she is fine right now at Spi/Fin, at least for this mod )

[Amelia]

For Sheaim's Planar Gates, which i'm pretty sure has been said and recommended like ten times already, planar gates should be a replacement of a building instead of a stand-alone, like how the Cave of Ancestors (Amurites) was a replacement of a pagan temple.

But you can't put Planar Gates too early, or they might get a good unit and destroy the balance. Similiarly, too late and there's no effect as well. I'm going to suggest a replacement for Ashen Veil Temple, but i can see how that limits Sheaim too much. Similiarly, replacing Mage Guilds limits the Sheaim to go arcane, so that's out either. Either the Library or the Inn might work, at writing or trade respectively.

Btw, what are the units that can be gotten from it + has there been any changes to the units themselves?

[Sian]

Been thinking a bit about Khazad and their precieved weakness in MP (going from Q's post on them in my XXVI thread, and some talking with Mardoc) and figured that their weakness consists of 2 parts

Vaults constrict their expansion a bit to much, and they have a severe lack of mobility, partially due to the lack of arcane and mount lines

As for Vaults I'd tentatively suggest that the lowest rank is completely removed and everything else on the ladder is bumped down a rank, so where you'd at the moment have abundant you'd now have overflowing. This would still give them reason to have a bigger treasurely than anyone else, but it would inflict less pain on their expansion.

As for the lack of mobility theres a couple of suggestions

1. Give them civ-wide promotion (or prehaps cook it into dwarven, although that would inflict balance changes onto Luichrup as well) giving them extra defense when in enemy territory, keeping their stack attack slow, but harder to dismantle
2. Give one of the leaders Spiritual so they have Mobility I on their disciple units having those available as mobile attackers / zone defenders

[flugauto]

As Khazad, you can ignore vaults early and play a normal game. The vaults are a goood boost later.

I don't unterstand the lack of arcane and mount line.

Don't forget that dwarven workers work faster. Khazad are definitely not weak.

[Qgqqqqq]

1)...for a penalty of two happiness
2)They aren't allowed mages, and many of the mounted units (+rangers)

That said, I don't think mobility is a paticularly large issue for them, its just anarea their missing that should be compensated by the siege/vaults boost (which is why I think vaults should be altered).

[Merovech]

As Khazad, you can ignore vaults early and play a normal game. The vaults are a goood boost later.

I don't unterstand the lack of arcane and mount line.

Don't forget that dwarven workers work faster. Khazad are definitely not weak.

I disagree with you here. Yes, your best way to work around vaults early is to ignore them...and take a -2 happy to every city. That is incredibly damaging. Lack of arcane and mounted lines limits your mobility and collateral. I don't remember how good dwarven siege is, but even if it is great, it is also less versatile. The Khazad do have some nice benefits, mainly the dwarven worker's increased work rate and their units' double movement through hills (which also applies to workers) and free magic resist on every unit, but they also have a very weak worldspell and start with crafting instead of agriculture. I think that Sian's idea is too much of a boost, but I wouldn't mind having the lowest rung removed, with every other rung staying at the same values (increasing the overall range for the previously second-lowest rung).

As for leaders, I would love to see a Charismatic/Spiritual (also Ingenious? Probably) Khazad leader, like the actual King of the the Khazad who stayed under the surface, but I am fine without him.

[flugauto]

It is 1 unhappy effectively, because Khazad have gold. And khazad still have adepts who can repaire trebuchets in no time. If they wouldn't have had the penalty from the empty vaults, they would have been totally unbalanced.

[Qgqqqqq]

Yes it is.
BUT thats not one free happy, as its one less you can get from the enviroment.
Adepts are NOTHING on mages.
Point to me how they would be unbalanced please.

I'd be fine with stripping the gold from them while implementing my change - the important part is makeing the benefits plausible while still seeing the light in a non-team game.
As is the cost is to hefty for a system encouraging ICS as FFH does.

[flugauto]

Now I'm not sure. Maybe Khazzad really need a boost. It can be tested in MP, if they become too strong, they can be reverted.

[Qgqqqqq]

Also it costs them a palace mana.

Sorry to nag, but when can we expect this out/how ready is it?