Diplomacy Master Thread- Helping Your Opponents Beat Themselves

[kalin]

I think the message to UniversCiv is just fine. 3gpt for a happy resource is mostly symbolic anyway.

Kalin

[scooter]

Interesting to see everyone is pretty divided about the UniversCiv message. We'll just have to see how they reply. I still think what we did was fine, though the message did not need to be rushed like it was.

Anyways, I wanted to throw out a possible draft to CFC and see what you guys think. I really want us to proactively seal up an ally here. That'll untie our hands with regards to CivPlayers and/or the WPC/German front.

Caledorn,

Pass on your thanks to your team for connecting our borders! We're all very happy that we've got full routes with your team now.

Our team has taken the T100 milestone to step back and try to identify how we want to play going forward. We really would like to identify one neighbor who we can trust as a solid ally longterm. I think there's a strong consensus on our team that your team is our preference. We're happy with our borders and agreements, and communication beween us has always been excellent. Our current NAP is set to be through T130. That works really nicely, but we'd like to consider extending it longterm - perhaps T175. I think this would give us both a lot of flexibility in dealing with other neighbors if we can both bank on a safe, demilitarized border for a long time. We're also certainly not married to the T175 date if you prefer longer or shorter. We'd love to include some sort of "priority resource trading" agreement too - where we would give you priority over other civs in trading for our excess resources and vice versa.

Feel free to take your time thinking about this. There's no pressure here at all since our NAP still has 30T remaining. This is certainly not a "take it or leave it" offer, we're just trying to initiate talks here. Poke me on chat whenever if you have any questions.

Thanks,
scooter - Team RB

What do you guys think?

[zakalwe]

I like it.

[kalin]

I like it too! I like the tone and everything else. I would make this stronger: "there's a strong consensus on our team that your team is our preference.", that is I would remove "I think".

Kalin

[scooter]

Reply from WPC:

Hello scooter,

Sorry for the late reply. I was a little swamped with experiments at the university.

We are very pleased that you see our plan in a positive light.
Actually, I thought about the possible 3rd party involvement that might mess up our plans.
(and I realized that I should have written it in the initial proposal about 5 minutes after I had sent it.)

So, we understand that aspect very well.
How about we just add to the list that "If either of our teams get involved in conflict or have to deal with some 3rd party threat, the turn 150 plan can be put on hold or cancelled if necessary"?
Naturally we should consult each other if such event happens, and I believe that both of us would understand the changed circumstances.

So, with that kind of clause, can you "put your name" on the dotted line?
It would be a kind of pinky swear to walk the path to the turn 150 plan provided nothing happens that puts our nations at risk.

So, with that idea in the air... lets go on to your questions.

1)
Our clever builders with freakishly enlarged craniums have made some further calculations.
We think that we can provide at least 5 catapults at YOUR disposal at that point. This number may increase... perhaps.
More units could be provided steadily in the following turns.

2)
We have a complete knowledge of the terrain in their core, so planning for protected attack routes through i.e. hills will not be a problem. As for cities, they have one at the shore of the lake between our and German lands. Their capital is 6 tiles west from that. I think they have at least one city even west that you should see also. To the north they had 2 cities some turns ago, but I believe it will increase with at least one more before turn 150.

3) They have a single copper resource next to the city by the lake (NW tile from the city). That is actually quite vulnerable location and could be taken out quickly. They probably have a horse resource further in west that we were not able to locate.


Looking forward to your reply.
Again... Feel free to ask any questions.

Tatu
WPC

[scooter]

Interesting reply. However... just 5 catapults?? I was imagining like... 15 minimum.

[Fintourist]

I like it too! I like the tone and everything else. I would make this stronger: "there's a strong consensus on our team that your team is our preference.", that is I would remove "I think".

Kalin

Oh, that is exactly the sentence that sounded for me too strong and too friendly to be true

[Sullla]

I don't think there's much doubt that we're going to accept this. We can say something like "we agree with the plan, let's do this war together, and work out the exact details when we get closer to the invasion date."

As for the promised aid... whoa there, WPC! Don't overpromise! A whole FIVE catapults?! We won't even need to show up with that kind of aid!

I can't help but remember when the Templars and Imperio were working together against Realms Beyond in the Apolyton game, and the Templars promised Imperio that they would attack our city of Pink Dot with their full army. Then they sent this:



Which prompted Imperio to write to them:

Only 10 units for attack? It doesn't seem a serious attack.

We have waiting 25 units, but if u can't cover us with a decent number of units. At least 20 we and you are lost.
kelben of imperio.

Long story short: the Single Player crowd tends to drastically understate what constitutes an army in these games.

[scooter]

This IS the same team that has whipped twice all game. I can't imagine why their first attempt ground to a halt.

Either way, we can probably accept while still (carefully) nudging them towards providing more than 5 catapults.

[kjn]

Huh. Five catapults won't be much, going against fortified cities stacked with defenders. But I'm not sure they realise that.

I think we should decline the catapults from them - we can probably handle taking down defenses with spies and depend on sheer unit strength and speed (ie knights). But what to say to them about it, without making it clear we think of them as the junior partner here? I also think we need to keep the tempo of far-in-the-future planning down.

That map info is hugely helpful, especially the location of the copper. I think that gives us a good in for declining the catapults, saying that they have the first critical strategic target.

That said, we should start with referring to the German cities by name, and confirm that the copper city is Wismar.

So we can probably send back that we have visibility of two German cities: Worms and Wismar, and some notes about their surroundings.