Diplomacy Master Thread- Helping Your Opponents Beat Themselves

[Fintourist]

I admit that this message makes it pretty obvious we are not in competition for GW..

But 1) x 1000!

[kjn]

I hope you can get some more concessions out of them, like that they will gift us a surplus happy as soon as they get it, right of first refusal on any other happiness trades, or a longer NAP.

[scooter]

Anything else?

Well the deal as it stands is acceptable, I think, but not great. Things to aim for are
- NAP to t200
- Promise that they settle SE of the rice
- We could ask for a no-compete on TGW but that's probably counterproductive.

Use stone gifted on T105 as the carrot, I suppose.

Yeah I was kind of mulling the idea of offering that we weren't sure about T105, but we would be willing to promise a T105 gift if they would push the NAP out to T200 and settle SE of the rice. I'm not sure if that's overstepping and/or putting the deal at risk to suggest that.

[Sullla]

I am OK with that deal as proposed, although I would also like to see us try to push for T200 and an agreement that they will settle southeast of the rice. But I could live with what they proposed if things come down to it. I also agree that basic things like not culture bombing and not performing harmful espionage missions should be part of any deal. See what you can get from them, scooter. Good luck.

I'm also not sure if everyone in this thread has been keeping up with the full discussion (understandable, there's a ton of posts in this thread). We can trade away stone on T105 with no change in Great Wall finishing date whatsoever. It still completes the exact same turn. No effect. We're not giving anything up there.

EDIT: The way that just phrased it sounds perfect, scooter. T105 stone is the carrot. "Well, we can give you stone on T106 for sure, but if you're willing to meet us halfway we can probably go a turn earlier, even though it hurts us to do it..."

[kjn]

And potential trade routes with Apolyton too! That's all the teams!

We really need to get that W2 axe to continue scouting, to get those two last contacts some really high-value trade routes.

FWIW, I'm tempted that we should ask the Spanish to bring the sheep to the party. If they were Australians, I wouldn't hesitate, but I'm not sure the spaniards would take it in the spirit it was intended. Or I'm afraid they will take it in the spirit it's intended.

[fluffyflyingpig]

Settling on the current spot is a non-starter. They must move the city to a non aggressive location.


Explicitly spell out: espionage point cap, no unit/resource/cash gifts to hostile teams, no culture bombs

Aim for T200 NAP

[Fintourist]

I'm also not sure if everyone in this thread has been keeping up with the full discussion (understandable, there's a ton of posts in this thread). We can trade away stone on T105 with no change in Great Wall finishing date whatsoever. It still completes the exact same turn. No effect. We're not giving anything up there.

It was not about our ETA. I've read your posts in detail. It was about potential competition. I guess we still lose couple of overflow hammers if we gift the stone on T105, but that's a non-issue in this context.

[scooter]

I'm also not sure if everyone in this thread has been keeping up with the full discussion (understandable, there's a ton of posts in this thread). We can trade away stone on T105 with no change in Great Wall finishing date whatsoever. It still completes the exact same turn. No effect. We're not giving anything up there.

It was not about our ETA. I've read your posts in detail. It was about potential competition. I guess we still lose couple of overflow hammers if we gift the stone on T105, but that's a non-issue in this context.

On the completely minuscule chance that they seriously risked an international incident to speed up the Great Wall by a whole turn and they win it on a coin flip... I think none of us will be too sad to have to settle for failgold.

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

Anything else?

Well the deal as it stands is acceptable, I think, but not great. Things to aim for are
- NAP to t200
- Promise that they settle SE of the rice
- We could ask for a no-compete on TGW but that's probably counterproductive.

Use stone gifted on T105 as the carrot, I suppose.

Yeah I was kind of mulling the idea of offering that we weren't sure about T105, but we would be willing to promise a T105 gift if they would push the NAP out to T200 and settle SE of the rice. I'm not sure if that's overstepping and/or putting the deal at risk to suggest that.

Their offer is underwhelming and makes no mention at all of the settling location of this new city, which is the most important part. I agree that needs to be addressed. Good point on spy missions and no artist bombing, scooter. And, pushing to T200 is preferable. If they're close to an agreement, getting the extra 25 turns now will be easier than having to broach the subject later when we're further ahead. Given Sullla's reworking of our TGW plan, can we do a straight trade: Give stone on T105 (rather than T106) in exchange for locking down SE of rice city placement and 25T additional NAP (to T200)?

I doubt they're in it for TGW. If they are, and use their chops on that rather than markets, etc., I'll take our low opportunity-cost fail gold and burn through another tech. Think of it as a mini-Oracle, using stone.

[kalin]

That's pretty good. I agree with novice's suggestions.

Scooter, thanks for all your effort you are putting in diplo!

Kalin