Micro Thread

[plako]

There is a new Great person plan that I like the best so far. In my previous plan main weakness was wasting quite a bit of Burecracy bonuses in our capital. Therefore I did try no growth option there and like it a better than the ones presented so far. I didn't find a good way to get 2nd Great person out from our capital (since I want to get one out from OTR before WIFOM), but it is now 3rd:
1 - HN T124
2 - OTR T128
3 - Caip T129
4 - WIFOM T131
5 - HN T132

As a side effect we get 5th GP also sooner making converting to OR+slavery earlier better (T133 would be my sugggestion). This will delay the 6th one quite a bit though.

[plako]

We could leave the library in Deerslayer unfinished at close to 88/90 just to keep our options open. Maybe a whip sequence of library > monastery/worker > courthouse > Taj is possible. But if we're going to need some turns of production anyway, it's easier to just one pop whip some units. (We don't get the OR bonus on those whips, though.)

Maybe do 4 whips, cascading the first two so that it's still a 5 turn build. In that case, definitely leave the library unfinished, as we would need plenty of stuff to one pop whip.

The point of cascading is to do the whips before Nationalism has been teched. What is our Nationalism ETA?

We can definately get Liberalism at the end of T130, if we get Scientist from HN on T124 and skip MC. If we take MC, that will be delayed probably ~3T (haven't simmed this).

I'll leave Library to non-finished state and start something else whipable then. Getting MC before Paper-Education might be better for this plan. Then we could put hammers earlier towards Forge after library and whip it for max overflow when we need to rush towards Taj. Because of our cheap libraries chain probably needs to be Library - Forge - 3rd building (Courthouse? - Not sure, if we have hammers/population to manage all these in time)

[zakalwe]

We could leave the library in Deerslayer unfinished at close to 88/90 just to keep our options open. Maybe a whip sequence of library > monastery/worker > courthouse > Taj is possible. But if we're going to need some turns of production anyway, it's easier to just one pop whip some units. (We don't get the OR bonus on those whips, though.)

Maybe do 4 whips, cascading the first two so that it's still a 5 turn build. In that case, definitely leave the library unfinished, as we would need plenty of stuff to one pop whip.

The point of cascading is to do the whips before Nationalism has been teched. What is our Nationalism ETA?

Yeah, but if we need some turns of actual production into Taj, anyway, there's no particular point in doing the whips before Nationalism. My last suggestion there was to do two whips before Nationalism, on T-2 and T-1, and two whips after, on T+1 and T+3. That would give us five turns of production, finish on EOT+4, and should be relatively easy to set up.

Anyway, I'll see if I can find some time to experiment in the sandbox.

[zakalwe]

There is a new Great person plan that I like the best so far. In my previous plan main weakness was wasting quite a bit of Burecracy bonuses in our capital. Therefore I did try no growth option there and like it a better than the ones presented so far. I didn't find a good way to get 2nd Great person out from our capital (since I want to get one out from OTR before WIFOM), but it is now 3rd:
1 - HN T124
2 - OTR T128
3 - Caip T129
4 - WIFOM T131
5 - HN T132

As a side effect we get 5th GP also sooner making converting to OR+slavery earlier better (T133 would be my sugggestion). This will delay the 6th one quite a bit though.

This also looks good. I guess the only concern is that if we're going to save a GP for bulbing into PP, then popping him early does nothing for us. If we just want to use one of those for bulbing into education, and settle all the others, then that looks very nice. We could still run another 5 or 6 turns in caste towards the end of the (second) GA.

What's more, though; if we're only adopting slavery on T133, then getting Nationalism on T130 probably does little to speed up our Taj date. So may as well do MC then. (At some point before liberalism.)

In your other plan, we could adopt slavery on T132, and that probably also leaves time to get MC, since a forge-boosted build will be faster.

[plako]

Last Scientist comes early yes, but I think it is not that bad to keep it around for few turns. Machinery is very fast to research with our golden age boosted economy. This could also be seen as safe play. In case HN doesn't produce Scientist we could use T131 from WIFOM for bulbing.

I'm starting to lean towards MC after Civil Service. Building Taj with it would pay the hammer investement back right away and I think we can afford delaying Liberalism. Also as you said we don't need to cascade so we could actually whip Forge 1st then Library and then either courthouse or cheap unit/units.

Also another Caste+pacifism period after finishing our building projects is good idea. We also need to build some units around that time.

edit. WE can definately delay last great person a turn so going for Slavery+OR on T132 is ok too.

[zakalwe]

For reference, I was able to grow Deerslayer to size 8 by T133, and there is also plenty of time to put 88/90 hammers into a library and 119/120 hammers into a forge. (Keep in mind we can work some 2/2/0 forests as needed.)

With OR+Slavery whipping library > forge > Taj then lets us 2-turn the Taj with 6 chops. So if we adopt slavery on T132, we should be able to complete the Taj EOT135, with just one turn out of GA. We could also do 5 chops and another whip, making the Taj a 3-turn build to complete EOT136. We can just have a second whip ready (e.g. 14 hammers into a monastery) and decide then which way to go, depending on the tech situation.

[plako]

This starts to look like a plan. Taj on T135 ior T136 is very good. Also the very unlikely occurence that we lose Taj we would be running our current "terminal" civics when our GA ends.

In summary the plans would be:
* Latest specialist plan where Great Persons in this order: HN->OTR->Caip->WIFOM->HN
* We try to bulb Education+PP - Additional Scientists are settled. Engineer used for Taj. What to do with Spy or Artist? Store them to wait for Golden age?
* Taj plan is to either 2*whip+6 chops or 3*whips+5 chops unless we get Great Engineer. Library and Forge are whipped.
* Techs are Civil Service - Philo - MC - Paper - Edu - Monotheism - Liberalism - NAtionalism - Machinery - PP...towards optics probably or we might need Knights at this point
* convert to OR+Slavery on T132

Other thing. We can also build culture because of Music so we could do that to pop borders of the new marble city fast to be able to improve Wheat sooner.

[zakalwe]

We could also use a courthouse at 29/120 as the third whip.

I.e. library > forge > Taj > courthouse > Taj completed with 5 chops.

In fact, I suggest the following micro for Deerslayer in the next few turns:

T121: Work deer, horse, wheat. Switch to courthouse, 8/120 hammers.
T122: Work deer, horse, wheat. Courthouse, 16/120 hammers.
T123 (GA): Work deer, horse, wheat, cottage. Courthouse, 28/120 hammers.
T124 (GA): Work deer, wheat, forest, forest. Resume library, 56/90 hammers.
T125 (GA): Work deer, horse, wheat, forest, forest. Library, 88/90 hammers.
T126+ Grow, and build forge to 119/120 hammers.

Or actually, maybe just finish that forge and whip library > courthouse > Taj. Anyway, the above micro still stands.

[zakalwe]

Other thing. We can also build culture because of Music so we could do that to pop borders of the new marble city fast to be able to improve Wheat sooner.

Great catch. We should definitely do that. Ideally we want 5 workers in the area when the borders pop. Can we spare that?

In summary the plans would be:
* Latest specialist plan where Great Persons in this order: HN->OTR->Caip->WIFOM->HN
* We try to bulb Education+PP - Additional Scientists are settled. Engineer used for Taj. What to do with Spy or Artist? Store them to wait for Golden age?
* Taj plan is to either 2*whip+6 chops or 3*whips+5 chops unless we get Great Engineer. Library and Forge are whipped.
* Techs are Civil Service - Philo - MC - Paper - Edu - Liberalism - NAtionalism - Machinery - PP...towards optics probably or we might need Knights at this point
* convert to OR+Slavery on T132

Looks good, just remember to slot in Monotheism, too. I would save an artist, and probably also a spy although that's more debatable.

[plako]

Monotheism added. We need to take it probably after finishing education before Liberalism.

Concerning marble city. 5 workers should be doable. We've plenty in the area at the moment.