So....Gandhi of France Anyone? (Leader/Civ Picking Thread)

[oledavy]

Top 2:
Hanging Gardens = the ultimate immediate payoff
Pyramids = high cost, ongoing reward

Next 2:
Stonehenge = better dotmapping
Oracle = turn 150h into ~500c (and that's without IND or marble)

After that:
Mausolleum = payoff is just too late for an early wonder. If you knew you could land Taj then maybe
Great Wall = seriously. Generally doesn't require the capital, and passive benefits last all game. Also, barbs on immortal don't pull punches.

Top 2:
Agree on all points

Next 2:
Agree on the first, actually disagree on the second. Oracle doesn't get any better in a team game unlike many of the other wonders. At least one other IND also means we could face some stiff competition for it. That being said, still a very strong wonder - moreso if we find marble. I would probably move it to "after that" and move MoM up here.

After that:
Great Wall: If barbs were on, this would be the best by far. However, they're thankfully off, meaning it's decent, but not game-changing. If we have stone though, it would be hard to refuse a run at it.

[superjm]

I disagree that the payoff for MoM isn't worth its cost, as long as you have the multiplier at least, especially in quick speed where golden ages are more powerful because of how they scale.

For a team game it's less desirable because (as I understand it) MoM only affects the civ that built it.

[oledavy]

For a team game it's less desirable because (as I understand it) MoM only affects the civ that built it.

It affects both

Main reason I wanted to ban it.

[oledavy]

#1 Reason to pick Gandhi: As of this video he is twice as cool as he was when we picked him for pb6

[Ceiliazul]

After that:
Great Wall: If barbs were on, this would be the best by far. However, they're thankfully off, meaning it's decent, but not game-changing. If we have stone though, it would be hard to refuse a run at it.

Ah, yes that changes things

#1 Reason to pick Gandhi: As of this video he is twice as cool as he was when we picked him for pb6

Awesome. I wish they cut out the few swear words so I could show the kids.

[superjm]

For a team game it's less desirable because (as I understand it) MoM only affects the civ that built it.

It affects both

Main reason I wanted to ban it.

See, the main thread had an example of using MoM to trigger a GA and then gifting it to your teammate, so I had assumed it only affected the holder.

If it affects both then yes, go for it. Very yes.

Also I'm assuming Huayna is going into the second spot, correct?

[WarriorKnight]

So, what do we take as a supporter? I see SPI, PHI and IMP as options. (Ghandi is in that list... )

I think we should probably take the best SPI leader we can get. Mansa would be pretty awesome with all those seafood and lake tiles at Start #1. Gandhi would be pretty good too. That being said, I'm open to pretty much anything you guys want to try.

Talked to dave about this:

11:42 David: Am really surprised we had the choice of Mansa/HC
Expected Darius to fall, but not Bis
me: yeah
think bis was a mistake
11:43 kinda ideal for a expander role though
must have thought thered be enough fin civs on the way back
David: There probably would be
11:44 Definitely going to target sh/glh/mids with that combo
Wanted to make sure they got him, didn't leave anything to chance
11:46 me: seems reasonab;le
11:47 should we really double up on FIN?
David: Hard to go wrong with it I think, boring, but dependable
11:49 me: seems we could get a lot more use out of something else
11:50 David: My main thought is that it would be nice to have for working those coastal/lake tiles. We're going to to be wanting to work them all anyway early on, so why not take the extra commerce.
Have something in mind?
11:52 me: was thinking about oracling mc and then get a PHI player to get a GE to get Mids, but its just an idea
early MC would be good with huayna
11:53 David: I could get behind that
Take Gandhi
Wheel/Mys/Agr/Min
11:54 Go Fishing -> BW -> Pottery -> Meditation -> Priesthood
Get Maya/France :D
11:55 me: dont think we'll get those civs, but is an idea
reason i think oracle > SH is that you get a warning factor in terms of the religions falling
11:57 David: True, but civs will be targeting them for early religions anyway, so eh..
Why don't you post that idea, see what Shoot and everyone else thinks. I could go for Mansa or Gandhi, and hopefully at least one will be available for us
11:59 me: dont think religions are that big a deal, since theres only 4 teams
12:00 theres other early game priorities such as math line
cant post about it now, will do so when i can in an hour or 2
12:01 David: Sounds good
me: anyway, gtg soon
David: Seven said he probably won't post their picks for a few hours yet, probably more like tmw, so we have a little time
later!

Gist of it is I suggested a slightly modified Oracle-MC-Mids gambit, getting Huayna to build Oracle and getting a PHI civ to rush a GE with the forge, which could either go for the Mids or maybe something else if Smack have built it already. (MoM?) Could be slightly better in the team format, as we can use IND and PHI together, and we don't have to rush a 2nd city to get a forge out ASAP. Thoughts?

Ghandi is both thematic for us and a pretty good choice for us to boot. The only problem I have with him is that it leaves us with no expansion traits. Admittedly this isn't as much of a huge deal on a Immortal map but still something to consider, otherwise he's my choice. I don't like Mansa since doubling up on FIN just seems like a waste to me. I guess Suleiman and Justinian would be my 2nd and 3rd choices, although I'm open to other suggestions.

[WarriorKnight]

BTW, I just figured our the perfect naming theme for us.

I'm definitely switching my naming theme to this.

EDIT: link isn't working for some reason... Try this one instead

[superjm]

FWIW, I have a google spreadsheet that I'm using as sort of a "virtual sandbox" to test out various strategies. I've been using it in PBEM to plan pretty much everything and I made a version for use in this game. If you want, I can share it and you can give your opinion on it. I don't think it'd be preferable to using an actual sandbox for you guys but I find it's the best way for me to manage my empire past the current turn.

Regarding Stonehenge (everything below assumes starting with the requisite techs, of course):

We can get Stonehenge by T16 going worker first. of course, Bismarck will get his worker a turn earlier than ours and thus, can chop a turn earlier. Or can he? See, there's a catch in his case: Bismarck would obviously be only working 9 commerce while building his first worker but the thing is, unless the first civ is working extra commerce while building his worker, they *cannot* finish BW in time for Bismarck's T8, which is the earliest point he can chop. If their start 1 is similar to our start, then they have no commerce outside of the water tiles, so they'd have to work a water tile for three turns (two if financial) to get enough commerce to finish BW. So it's not quite a cut-and-dry "Bismarck will beat us to Stonehenge" deal.

I still don't advocate going for Stonehenge, but I'm just putting things out there. Basically, if 4H doesn't have Bronze Working by T8 then we beat them to Stonehenge. All theoretical of course.

You *could* get Stonehenge by T13 by going for it straight from T0, but I imagine that's not a good option for a host of reasons.

[Shoot the Moon]

If Mansa is still there on the way back I think that would be strongest and then just ignore the mids personally (maybe try to oracle currency?). Double cottage spam cheese is prett boring, and yet also quite effective.

By the way, has anyone setup a WB save with the specific map dimensions/difficulty to check exactly what we're looking at in terms of maintenance? Double fin of course needs it to be as high as we are expecting.

Also, in terms of wonders my order probably goes MoM, HG, Oracle.