New EitB PBEM?

[Ichabod]

Can I ask when will you know if you can really commit, HK?

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I agree with "No tech trading". I haven't even considered the possibility of having it ON, so i forgot to put it in the list.

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Deity + Toroidal is insanely high maintenance, HK. I'm not sure if you aware of that, just pointing it out. If you are, that's ok. But I'd say that, if the map is toroidal, Immortal is enough.

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I prefer the Shade idea, but the extra techs + worker also sound pretty good and I'd be totally ok with it.

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I don't mind having Unique Features, I actually like them. But the Epic Lairs I'd only be ok with if there's a "no exploration clause", i.e., only use them to get the mana. I really dislike the possible imbalances of early lair exploration. Huts aren't that big of a problem, since everyone will pop them and the most you'll get is usually free Hunting or something like that (big, but not that big). Lairs aren't a straightforward choice, some players pop them and get Great People or a disciple to get a unfounded religion, while others don't pop them and have to deal with Lizardmen. Besides, I had enough games where Mistforms took someone out of the game in turn 20 or so.

So, I'd be ok with Huts way before I'd be ok with lairs.

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Living world is nice, I'm ok with or without it.

[Mardoc]

I don't mind having Unique Features, I actually like them. But the Epic Lairs I'd only be ok with if there's a "no exploration clause", i.e., only use them to get the mana. I really dislike the possible imbalances of early lair exploration. Huts aren't that big of a problem, since everyone will pop them and the most you'll get is usually free Hunting or something like that (big, but not that big). Lairs aren't a straightforward choice, some players pop them and get Great People or a disciple to get a unfounded religion, while others don't pop them and have to deal with Lizardmen. Besides, I had enough games where Mistforms took someone out of the game in turn 20 or so.

As a middle ground, I could include lairs and Held guardians, that let you explore the lairs only mid-game, after people have enough military to deal with the consequences. Totally up to you guys, just throwing it out there.

[Ichabod]

I don't mind having Unique Features, I actually like them. But the Epic Lairs I'd only be ok with if there's a "no exploration clause", i.e., only use them to get the mana. I really dislike the possible imbalances of early lair exploration. Huts aren't that big of a problem, since everyone will pop them and the most you'll get is usually free Hunting or something like that (big, but not that big). Lairs aren't a straightforward choice, some players pop them and get Great People or a disciple to get a unfounded religion, while others don't pop them and have to deal with Lizardmen. Besides, I had enough games where Mistforms took someone out of the game in turn 20 or so.

As a middle ground, I could include lairs and Held guardians, that let you explore the lairs only mid-game, after people have enough military to deal with the consequences. Totally up to you guys, just throwing it out there.

I'd still prefer a "no exploration" rule. This way you can at least use the Mana early.

I wouldn't mind about the placement of the unique features so much, though. Of course, having Yggdrasil in someone's front yard might be a bit too much, but I don't think you need to put them in distant islands or so.

[Ichabod]

By the way, I'm also looking for a ded-lurker. I'd like someone active for discussion and that forces me to keep the thread at least a bit updated.

[Serdoa]

1. Map: I'll just trust Mardoc that he will do a fair map that is fun to play and not completely unbalanced. I'll take a look at the game you guys mentioned, but in general I stated my point which boils down to "Fun and fair".

2. Game Speed: Quick

3. Map Wrap: Cylindrical or Toroid

4. Difficulty: Immortal - I'd even consider Emperor if Toroid. I simply don't see the reason to play a MP-game when the first meaningful interaction between our civs happens at T150+, because before there are just wide stretches of land no one can settle. And I also think that it makes for a more interesting game if there are several possible tactics available and not just a single one (vertical expansion) because everything else can't be paid for.

5. Other settingss:

Diplomacy - I'd suggest AI-diplo with some more deal-possibilities added. Like offering gold or something for war with another player or gpt for adopting a religion etc. Some honor-rule probably would be in order that gpt-deals won't be broken via war just to break the deal. And of course if you ask for war the other should be bound to actually do declare war, but of course he can still do a phony war only. Without talk between players the threat alone can be enough.

Raging Barbarians - OFF
Wildlands - OFF
Orthus - OFF
Acheron - OFF
Huts - OFF
Lairs - OFF

In general I'd rather have Lairs and Huts off because if you do try to get rid of the random stuff unbalancing the game I think it is better to get rid of it completely instead of only partially. And yes, that would normally mean Barbarians off as well, but in FFH they are kinda important for some civs, but that is not true for Huts and Lairs. So thats why I vote as I do.

6. A way to make the early game faster: Shade is ok for me, though I personally would rather have a worker to start with and maybe another tech. But thats really not all that important for me. Though this point here actually loops for me back to the question about wrap and difficulty: Making the early game faster but choosing settings to make the actual game as a whole slower does not really mash for me. If we won't have any interaction for 150+ turns, I don't think having techs 10 turns earlier would matter all that much.

Also Illians will be a little bit weakened if everyone starts with a worker. I don't intend to play them so I don't care, but just something to consider maybe.

[Ichabod]

I agree with Serdoa regarding the difficulty. Immortal/Cylindrical and Emperor/Toroidal are heavy enough on maintenance that we don't need to go any higher (otherwise it'll be, as Serdoa said, a single right choice scenario -> going tall).

And this is actually a very good point too: "Making the early game faster but choosing settings to make the actual game as a whole slower does not really mash for me."

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I know I'm changing my mind a lot, but I prefer to make the choice of settings more of a discussion than a straight up vote count. So I think everyone should chime in on the discussion, so that we can find a set of settings that pleases everyone. I think there's already a lot of agreement in most of the points, just need to tackle some relevant questions.

[DaveV]

Living World - ON

Might be better balanced than having it off, since everyone's likely to get an event or two. (A starting shade is also good for balancing out the impact that early events can cause.)

I've seen this opinion before, and I don't agree. Instead of evening things out, it tends to mean that one guy gets Muris Clan goblin poop in two or three tiles instead of just one. In the same spirit as the huts and lairs, I'd love to turn events off completely if Sareln manages to implement that.

Diplomacy - I'd suggest AI-diplo with some more deal-possibilities added. Like offering gold or something for war with another player or gpt for adopting a religion etc. Some honor-rule probably would be in order that gpt-deals won't be broken via war just to break the deal. And of course if you ask for war the other should be bound to actually do declare war, but of course he can still do a phony war only. Without talk between players the threat alone can be enough.

This sounds appealing. I like AI diplo games because there is some interaction but you still have to guess at the other guy's motives. As long as interactions are tightly defined (maybe even scripted?), this could work. Diplo stuff has a tendency to drift in the "more diplo" direction.

As far as difficulty: Immortal/cylinder Emperor/toroid sounds fine.

[Ichabod]

Important topic: Hyborem/Basium -> Allowed human takeover, compact enforced or what?

I'm not against summoning one of them, but I dislike the idea of Human control. So maybe you can summon and play as them, but not add anotehr person to the roster. I wouldn't have a problem with outright Compact Enforced too.

[Serdoa]

Yeah, same for me Dave in regards to Diplo. I would love to have some talk, but it is nearly impossible to have that without doing diplo, even if it is only unintentional. And that just opens up so many loopholes that I rather go with none as trying to define some artificial line which will never be accurate enough or really catch all possibilities.

Anyhow, I think if we agree on some added deals (maybe everything you can offer the AI in SP-games) it would open up some more possibilities. Maybe also allow 1-2 sentences for explanatory messages per turn. That makes it possible to offer something for war and add "he runs away with the game" without it being a "silver-tongue others into war to win yourself"-situation.

As for events I agree as well with you, but as they can't be disabled as far as I know without breaking the game we just have to live with them. I think Sareln changed some of those giving you a GA to just give you gold but I am not sure.

[Serdoa]

Not sure what compact enforced does (simply no summoning of those?). But I am fine with no human takeover for certain. I wouldn't mind so much if you can decide to take them and in general vassal them (I think Basium is automatically vassaled to their summoner right?). But it might simply be easier not to have them in the game at all.