RB PBEM #1 - Mehmed (SPOILERS!)

[kalin]

One more thing. You mentioned SPaya. Do you really think it makes sense? You have no gold. Is free religion better than organized rel. atm? Also, with a relative lack of food and whipping would you really be able to grow your cities to the point of needing that happiness? Lots of questions I know

K

[Dreylin]

Very nice dot map. Here are a few comments:

* Orange dot can be founded before you deal with the barb city which may take a while with all the settling you need to do. I guess its problem is that it won't have good tiles to work until it expands.

I did notice this last night when I was preparing the dotmap and had intended to mention it, but it was late and probably one too many beer I forgot.

Expanding borders will be a priority for either Orange or Yellow in order to grab the Copper, so I will attempt to ensure that there is a Missionary ready at the same time as the Settler.

Re: the Barb city, capturing/razing it is not currently high on my priority list, so it may depend what state it is in when I get my first unit over there ... particularly what it is defended by. If it is still Warriors, then I will probably be able to gradually kill them off with a Chariot, however if Archers show up it's obviously going to take more investment.

* You are leaving quite a few grasslands around capital and Edirne with the maroon dot around the sugars, and on this map they may be worth more than in general. Wouldn't it be better to rethink a bit the dot map to make sure you are using them?

It is difficult to tell from the overview image, but the vast majority of those Grasslands are also hills (I don't have access to the game atm; I will try to take a better image of the area this evening). The one 3NE of Istanbul is flat - and maybe the one 1S - but pretty-much everything else is not.

I'm not entirely sure what to do down here tbh, which is why Maroon is only sketched in at the moment. One option I've considered is to move it 1W onto the Southern Sugar, but the current location may have a better defensive position from a potential Eastern attack.

What's the ETA of the oracle?

Per my previous post: t47.

The current chop is due to complete on t45 so I will be unable to whip until t46, however at the current rate I can go into starvation for 1t to complete on t47 without whipping. Even if I go to max production (working 4x grass hill forests) from t44 I come in 2h short of being able to complete the build with the chop on t46. If I'd done the anaysis earlier, I could have gone into starvation last turn and pulled completion back.

One more thing. You mentioned SPaya. Do you really think it makes sense? You have no gold. Is free religion better than organized rel. atm? Also, with a relative lack of food and whipping would you really be able to grow your cities to the point of needing that happiness?

TBH, I don't know if it makes sense, and I agree that it's a less attractive option without Gold. Really I'm just exploring other potential sources of Prophet points. Maybe you're right that Chichen Itza w/Stone is a better bet (though I'm not sure when I'll get around to settling the Stone).

One benefit of FR would be that it wouldn't require me to pick a particular religion to spread (though a Shrine would encourage that), since all would provide 1Happy ... then there's the +10% Research bonus. However, you are probably right that OrgRel is the way to go in the short term - especially since I'll soon have my super-Aqueducts to provide happiness!

[Dreylin]

I'm not entirely sure what to do down here tbh, which is why Maroon is only sketched in at the moment. One option I've considered is to move it 1W onto the Southern Sugar, but the current location may have a better defensive position from a potential Eastern attack.

Well, turns out looking a bit closer at this area does indeed reveal a better location:



Flesh-coloured Dot trades 3Lakes & Plains hill for 2Grassland, 2Grass hills, and another shared Grassland with Edirne.

Despite not being on a hill, it actually commands a better defensive position than Maroon since it can't be bypassed without moving onto flat land.

Oh, I guess I also trade a Sugar tile for another Grass hill. But since Settling on a Sugar give 3/4 food anyway, that's not a huge loss.

[Dreylin]

... aaand we're back! :wink2:

t44 - Writing completes, Archery in 1t. Wanderer enters sooooo's borders and spots a second Worker.

When last we saw our intrepid workforce, Tim was at Ankara finishing connection of the Cows; Daisy was at Edirne connecting the Gems, and Mike was chopping for the Oracle at Istanbul.

Istanbul has the Oracle due on t47 (with chop); Edirne puts the overflow from the MP Warrior towards finishing its Monument (may as well) - growth will be in 2t, and correspond with connection of the Gems; and Ankara is 2t from completing it's Granary naturally with growth in 3t.

[Dreylin]

Correspondence with Ruff:

Dreylin,

Just touching base re techs ... Here is my understanding of our agreed trades.

I trade you Maths (221) for Meditation (70), Priesthood (52) and Monotheism (105) [total of 227]
I trade you Sailing for Poly

You already have all of these techs, so what are you currently researching? After maths, I am thinking of Calendar (309 beakers).

Ruff

Hey Ruff,

Those look like what we agreed to, yes. 8-)

Right now I'm going after HBR, and that should finish around the time you complete Maths. After that I'm not certain; IW, MC & Currency are all attractive options. If you have a preference let me know, since Calendar will certainly be useful to me....

Is your Scout passing straight on through; I'd have thought he'd hang around at least a bit to heal and enjoy some Roast Pork...?

Anyway, nice to be back going again!

Dreylin II.

I don't see a need to disabuse him of my having Meditation, since I will have it by the time we need it for trade.

[Dreylin]

t45 - Archery complete, start on Meditation (in 2t).

Daisy finishes mining the Gems, so Edirne starts working them and building an Archer ... and I realise the Gems are connected by the river! Mike finishes the chop for the Oracle ... only 1t to survive before that completes.

[Dreylin]

t46 - nervously check the event log ... there's a grey BIDAL message ... Oh, someone has built the Pyramids. Heave a sigh of relief. Hmmmm, sooooo is clearly going for some sort of specialist economy to leverage his Philosophical trait. I expect a Scientist to pop out in fairly short order. OTOH, the relative lack of food on the map may hurt that strategy.

Anyway, back to the Ottomans: Ankara completes it's Granary and will put a turn into an Archer while growing to Size3, then start a Settler. Edirne works the forested grass hill with it's fourth citizen, speeding the Archer to 2t. Istanbul reconfigures to complete Oracle next turn.

Tim moves towards the Wheat to hook up, Daisy finishes the Road on the Gems, and Mike moves to Road the Pigs to use up a turn before mining the river grass hill.

Some diplomatic messages as well, which I'll detail later.

[Dreylin]

Short reply from Ruff:

Dreylin,

Scout will not be stopping to heal. He may pick up some roast pork (yum).

HBR ... sounds interesting but the others sound better. I'll keep my ears open.

Ruff

[Dreylin]

Having spotted the Pyramids build, it gives me a good excuse to ping sooooo about my last message and a potential trade:

sooooo,

Congratulations on your new Pyramid!

I was wondering if you'd had a chance to think about my previous message and decide where you stood on a proposed Alphabet - HBR+ trade?

Dreylin II.

Oh, I got the pyramids already? Thought it was one turn to go. Not that that's a bad thing though

Sorry I forgot to reply to your message. Alpha for HBR is OK for me. Not the tech I would have chosen, but I will need to pick it up eventually. I cannot log into the game right now, but I will check later and inform you of the tech(s) I would like to make up the beaker count.

sooooo

I'm guessing that he hasn't played much sequential MP before, so I send him a quick primer on how the system works with a couple of illustrations:

sooooo,

With a sequential PBEM production is calculated at the end of each player's turn, so if you end turn with 1t to go on a build (or research) that build will complete before Ruff takes his turn. Thus the Pyramids are complete, though you can't use them yet, just as the Oracle is now complete though I have yet to choose the tech.

Are you still on for having Alphabet on t53 (estimated from 10t on t43) or has it speeded up since?

Dreylin II.

I considered not mentioning my Oracle build, but he will see it before we have a chance to wrap up the negotiations (Athlete has already played, so looks like we're back on a 2t/day schedule). I fully expect him to make a counter-offer for my Oracle tech ... especially if it is CoL, allowing him to go to Caste System / Representation. There will likely be some haggling involved, and I will be looking to secure a NAP as part of the deal, thus fully securing my Eastern flank.

[Dreylin]

I have also been exchanging a few pleasantries with mh:

Hi Dreylin,
no long time no talk.
Sorry for that.

Are you interested in strengthening our relationship with an OB agreement?

Also, would you be interested in engaging in some tech trades down the road?

Refusing Open Borders at this stage of the game would probably be seen as churlish, especially since neither of us will be getting trade routes from it. I read this first message while I was playing the turn, so I thought I might as well make the offer in-game as a gesture of good faith.

mh,

Hope you had a good time while you were away; I must admit that the pause was a good opportunity for the rest of us to gather our thoughts and plan a bit for the next phase of the game.

Open Borders is fine by me, and I have proposed such in-game.

Trading tech is also of interest; I am currently researching HBR, which will finish around the time sooooo releases Alphabet to the masses; how about you?

Dreylin II.

Of course I already know what he's teching, and as a result also know that I already have a deal in place for it so won't be able to trade with him. Because of this I am being a bit nicer that I might be in order to appear friendly.

Hi,

ok I will accept OB when the game is back with me.
HBR would be interesting. I am currently researching Monarchy.
I will have to reassess the tech situation once Alphabet is in and the initial round of trading has be done.
Especially, as I can't see any horses yet.
However, I am in need of some more basic techs. But as I said that depends on the ETA of sooooo's Alphabet.
I might have cleaned up some of them myself be then.

But lets stay in contact about this.

mh

Reading this again, I'm a bit surprised at his Horses comment, as I'm sure he's passed the ones in the Western Valley. Maybe he means a closer supply ... in which case I suspect it's a similar situation to Ruff's failure to spot his pre-Calendar Happy.

mh,

Hmmm, that's a shame; Athlete is also teching Monarchy at the moment and I have already negotiated a trade with him. I guess we'll have to try and arrange something for the second round of research. BTW, last I chatted with sooooo, his ETA for Alphabet was around t53.

Where is your Scout at the moment? I ask because sooooo's Phalanx is just about to start traversing my territory, and I presume you guys are still needing to meet up?

Again, a little more helpful than needed to try to soften the blow of duplicate research and lack of Monarchy trades.

Hi,
My scout is headed for Edirne and then east. Thanks for the info.

Ok, with respect to techs, I think we see what becomes available after the first round.

I have decided that this doesn't require a reply - though I will probably mention mh's scout next time I chat with sooooo.