The Dark arts - C&D Master Thread

[Sullla]

I would not be surprised at all if Apolyton is rival worst in Power. They are currently up about 1400 beakers on us in total beakers researched; we will equalize with them when we finish Civil Service (at least until they research another tech themselves). In other words, they are basically ahead the beaker cost of Philosophy, which they picked up in their last lightbulb.

The tradeoff for being ahead Philosophy and Civil Service is that Apolyton is lacking any kind of military tech. They don't have Iron Working, Calendar, Construction, Horseback Riding, or even Archery. The only units they can build are axes, spears, and chariot. If we're at all lucky, someone will try to take a bite out of this team which is very obviously running a pure econ game thus far. I am still crossing my fingers and hoping for CivPlayers to declare war on either Apolyton or CivFr. (Based on the map info we have, CivFr should be the western neighbor of CivPlayers, and Apolyton their northern neighbor around that huge body of water.)

[T-hawk]

Culture actually happens in the city-by-city step, too, btw.

I've been playing too much Civ 5, where there is a nationwide culture step, and where culture definitely does happen after production.

[kjn]

T113 - 50 BC

Cliff's Notes: Apolyton researched Civil Service, and has revolted to it. CivFr built the Temple of Artemis. Univers researched a classical tech. Otherwise, only pop and land score.

Demos (after Apolyton settled Diyarbakir):

Score table

Team	Score change	Pop	Tech	Land	Wonders
RB	4	4 (+2 pop; 84 total)
Spanish	5	5 (+2 pop; 26 total)
Apolyton	26	8 (+3 pop; 47 total)	18 (Civil Service)
Germans	3	3 (+1 pop; 40 total)
CivFr	33	10 (+4 pop; 66 total)		7 (+9 tiles; 122 total)	16 (Temple of Artemis)
CivPlayers	2	2 (+1 pop; 39 total)
CFC	12	12 (+5 pop; 67 total)
Univers	14	2 (+1 pop; 56 total)	12 (classical)

Score analysis

Last turn was relatively straightforward, but this is anything but! We have a rival total score increase of 95 points, F8 analysis shows 18 new global pop points (iincludes Apolyton's new city), and GNP analysis shows no new known techs. The good thing is that the claimed land from T93 was small and known, and that we have visibility on far more cities now.

CFC: Terasvin grew to 7, Mantra to 5, and Raj to 7. That leaves 5 score, which goes to two unknown cities. They have 67 total pop.

Spanish: Grew two pop, for 26 total.

Apolyton: Researched Civil Service, as visible from the tech trading screen. That leaves 8 score for 3 pop, and 47 total.

Germans: Grew one pop, for 40 total.

CivFr: The only team with a score increase that fits with a wonder (since Apolyton researched CS). They also receive 7 land score from T93, leaving 10 to pop and a possible ancient tech. 2 pop would give them 5 score, so they grew 4 pop and still have one ancient tech unresearched. As usual, there are several possible solutions for how they can reach the rival best in population.

CivPlayers: Grew one pop, for 39 total. Tenochtitlan, size 9, is currently holding the #5 spot in the top cities list, and has both the Oracle and the Apostolic Palace, implying they have gone for a hammer-heavy capital.

Univers: Univers gets the one remaining pop growth, for 56 total, which leaves 12 score for a classical tech in 3t. I pencil in Mathematics for now, though it's arguably likely that they have researched a tech with zero power, like Aesthetics.

Heh. That went easier than I had anticipated.

Power analysis

Global rival power rose with only 2000 between the late demos of T112 and the demos I took, and APTmod shows a small decrease in power for CFC. In Sullla's late demos, we have a further drop of 6000 in rival total and rival best in power, but the Spanish war weariness is only 3. The fighting so far seems to mostly stalemate, which arguably is bad news for the Spanish team.

[Ceiliazul]

Great work, as always! Thanks for keeping up with this, I'm planning to work on some dossier updates this weekend.

Is it possible to clean up the old data in Waterbat's google sheet? Maybe that would help us stay under 512 points?

[kjn]

Great work, as always! Thanks for keeping up with this, I'm planning to work on some dossier updates this weekend.

Is it possible to clean up the old data in Waterbat's google sheet? Maybe that would help us stay under 512 points?

Would be very welcome! Use the C&D sheet primarily, sometimes the old reports in this thread contains the wrong numbers. Green techs in the tech sheet are tentatives.

Waterbat's tool only works with the data that we get out of APTmod, and I haven't found a way to strip out older turns there. So at around T126 or T127 APTmod will become far less usable for C&D purposes, and I can't see any way around it.

[kjn]

I'm currently working myself through T114, which will take awhile (I need to enter all our new known cities from T113 first), but I can already tell that Apolyton's tenth city - Izmir - likely is a captured barb city. Their gold increased from 11 at the start of the turn to 26 once they had finished it.

I'll do an F8 analysis later on to try and confirm this.

[novice]

I can already tell that Apolyton's tenth city - Izmir - likely is a captured barb city

Apolyton is the Ottoman Empire and Izmir is the ninth city in the Ottoman city name list. If it's a captured barb city they're doing counter C&D...

[Ceiliazul]

If it's a captured barb city they're doing counter C&D...

That would be pretty cool, actually. Good catch Novice.

[kjn]

This is one weird-ass turn. The total score change was 68, F8 analysis gave us 12 new pop (circa 30 score) and there are 23 land tiles to assign (circa 16 score), and at least 7 of them belong to Univers, who also became the rival best in land with 129 land tiles on T94.

CFC grew 3 pop and CivFr 1 pop. That's easy from map info and rival best in population.

Wittenberge should have expanded to third-ring borders on T94, and so the Germans must have received some land points. 9 land tiles gives them 6 score, and fits reasonably well with third-ring borders.

I'm fairly sure that CivPlayers researched a classical tech in 5t and grew 3 pop.

Univers claimed 7 tiles with a city on T94, so that's at least 5 score to them, and they are likely to have had a border expansion too of nine tiles, so a grand total of 11 score from land. But 9 tiles to the Germans and 16 to Univers is 25, not 23.

But the big trouble is the Spanish team. We know from map data that they didn't grow any of the cities we have visibility on (which is four out of five), so at most 2 of their score can come from pop (26 to 27 pop means 65 to 67 in score). 7 land tiles would give them 4 score, but they had a total score change of 7. So did they only receive two land tiles on T94, and then researched an ancient tech in 12t?

[zakalwe]

I'm currently working myself through T114, which will take awhile (I need to enter all our new known cities from T113 first), but I can already tell that Apolyton's tenth city - Izmir - likely is a captured barb city. Their gold increased from 11 at the start of the turn to 26 once they had finished it.

I'll do an F8 analysis later on to try and confirm this.

Failgold from Pyramids or something?