WW21 - The Professor Is Dead [game thread]

[zakalwe]

A couple more comments on Serdoa's post (cross-posting with Novice).

"What would he gain by them revealing their role (not their role-name, he never asked for that all thread as far as I checked)?"

Just to clarify, I don't get role names, I get ability names. With luck, an ability name might well be something scummy in itself, like "Stab" or "Hypnotize" (search for the Hypnotoad if you wonder why the latter would be scummy). Also, people might claim vanilla but turn out to have an ability, or the name of their ability could be a poor match for what they claim it does. Asking follow-up questions about what people's abilities are called would be easy, but if I did that up front then I would give away exactly what I was looking for.

About the whole "playing up my importance" part, that was me appealing to Novice for input on what to do. Claim right away, and scan Mattimeo or Serdoa, or stay undercover and scan someone else. But apparently, Novice didn't even realize he was in on my secret. So much for that.

Maybe that whole interlude was just clumsy, weird, stupid, or what have you, but I don't think it deserves to be called scummy.

[novice]

If town have two seers it would actually make perfect sense for scum to have a commuter. Isn't a commuter in village hands kind of overpowered in a game this size, actually? Azza should know, he commuted to a town victory in a recent game (his commuter role managed to be overpowered in a game where EVERYTHING was overpowered ).

[Serdoa]

No it isn't novice. I thought a bit about that when I made my long post. Even if Lewwyn would have been targeted by a nightkill and managed to commute the right night (he did say he used it last night so I assume limited uses) the village would still be at the same day at Lylo. The same goes for a potential Vig btw or a doctor role. Basically we need to have two of those roles to actually change anything in terms of when we reach Lylo. Otherwise we just gain a (semi-)confirmed villager. Which isn't bad in itself, but as we don't lose any villager at all in that case, we would be today just at 4-2 (after mislynch 3-2, after night 2-2 and lose) with 4 players beside oneself being potential scum. Thats the same situation with the same amount of scum that we have right now, just at 3-2 instead.

[Serdoa]

Just to clarify, I don't get role names, I get ability names. With luck, an ability name might well be something scummy in itself, like "Stab" or "Hypnotize" (search for the Hypnotoad if you wonder why the latter would be scummy). Also, people might claim vanilla but turn out to have an ability,

Stop right there. Thats exactly why you should scan one claiming vanilla, you can be CERTAIN afterwards that he told the truth or lied. Thats the best that can happen to the village, much better than getting an ability name that MIGHT indicate something.

or the name of their ability could be a poor match for what they claim it does. Asking follow-up questions about what people's abilities are called would be easy, but if I did that up front then I would give away exactly what I was looking for.

About the whole "playing up my importance" part, that was me appealing to Novice for input on what to do. Claim right away, and scan Mattimeo or Serdoa, or stay undercover and scan someone else. But apparently, Novice didn't even realize he was in on my secret. So much for that.

Maybe that whole interlude was just clumsy, weird, stupid, or what have you, but I don't think it deserves to be called scummy.

I think it was scum being nervous that a Vig could kill him. And also I don't believe that you are clumsy, weird, stupid or whatever else. You normally think about what to do with your role and I really can't see what the gain is to scan Lewwyn ESPECIALLY (I repeat myself here) as you were certain that one of Mattimeo and Ryan is scum. And when Ryan turns out village you don't scan Mattimeo but Lewwyn? Thats hard for me to understand zak, simply because if you found an ability name by scanning him you would know he is a wolf. And even if you didn't find one, it would at least tell you that he didn't lie.

Also why Lewwyn at all, I think I still don't understand that. Apart from the points above, what made Lewwyn a better target than Gazglum or me?

Lastly: I find it interesting that you scanned novice N1 despite suspecting Mattimeo and Ryan the most and also that you managed to scan those that haven't died yet. 50% of all possible scan-targets have died already and you hit 2 out of 4 that are still alive. Kinda funny.

[zakalwe]

Like I said before, I viewed your early vanilla claim as a town tell. I was then made aware that Mattimeo also claimed vanilla at the same time. So I decided to go for Lewwyn, who had only claimed that he might be vanilla. It was setting up the same situation you describe, only with Lewwyn instead of Mattimeo. Either I would catch him in a lie as he claimed to be vanilla, or I would be able to corroborate his claim. For that matter, if I had scanned Mattimeo and found him to have no abilities, I don't think we could have cleared him. He could still be vanilla scum. We can't be sure that the factional kill would show up as an explicit ability in my scan.

In short, I don't accept that there was anything wrong with targeting Lewwyn instead of Mattimeo. I was willing to lynch Mattimeo yesterday, particularly with my own ass on the line, but I preferred to lynch Ryan. Yet when it came time to decide on a scan target, Lewwyn felt like the best choice. I don't think anyone stands out as very scummy in this crowd, so these are all pretty close calls to begin with.

[Azza]

Current Vote Tally

zakalwe (3) - Lewwyn, Mattimeo, Serdoa
Mattimeo (2) - zakalwe, novice

[Serdoa]

So Lewwyn, Mattimeo do you have actually anything to say to this game. Like... at all? I'm really tempted to vote Mattimeo even though I suppose we will lose the game if I do, simply because I'd rather lose to zak or novice whom I can at least tell myself did something for their win.

[Lewwyn]

So Lewwyn, Mattimeo do you have actually anything to say to this game. Like... at all? I'm really tempted to vote Mattimeo even though I suppose we will lose the game if I do, simply because I'd rather lose to zak or novice whom I can at least tell myself did something for their win.

Have anything to say seems pretty harsh towards me. I've been fairly active throughout the game, but today is one of my busiest days of the week since I teach 3 classes on Wednesday. I just got home and now I'm going out to eat dinner. So my silence during this day has not been intentional, I just haven't had time.

I'm thinking about who is left and I'm thinking about who could be Zak's scumbuddy because I think Zak is scum. Serdoa do you think Mattimeo is innocent based on his posts or gameplay or because Zak and Novice are voting for him? You seem to imply you think he's innocent. I'm not sure because I could easily see Zak and Matt as scumbuddies distancing each other right now.

I also could see the wondertwins on Matt now, and I can also see you Serdoa reversing course on Zak.

We still have a full 24 hours.

[Serdoa]

Sorry, didn't mean to be harsh. This silence is just nerve-wracking because I get the feeling it just means that the wolves are happy with were the votes are. Which might at the worst mean that neither zak nor Matt is a wolf.

As for whoms with whom I try not to put to much thought into that because it fear it puts us on a tangent that isn't helpful. We need to catch a wolf today, not a wolf-pair. I can see pretty much everyone with everyone being the wolf-team tbh. The roles can all be seen either way, novices tie-breaker could have been given to the wolves if we got all the seers. Why zaks role could be wolf I explained already but of course it could be village. Your role could as well be wolf especially when I look at your wording.

"Its basically a commuter role. I get wasted at night and end up somewhere other than my house making me untargetable"

Untargetable, not simply NK-immune. Tough I think you probably just rephrased what your role-PM said though, taking the word untargetable probably directly from the role-PM itself?

[Lewwyn]

Sorry, didn't mean to be harsh. This silence is just nerve-wracking because I get the feeling it just means that the wolves are happy with were the votes are. Which might at the worst mean that neither zak nor Matt is a wolf.

I think its really possible they both are wolves. Which considering you have just implied that you think Matt might be innocent because Zak's voting for him, seems like a good wolf play.

We need to catch a wolf today, not a wolf-pair. I can see pretty much everyone with everyone being the wolf-team tbh.

Yeah same.

The roles can all be seen either way, novices tie-breaker could have been given to the wolves if we got all the seers. Why zaks role could be wolf I explained already but of course it could be village. Your role could as well be wolf especially when I look at your wording.

"Its basically a commuter role. I get wasted at night and end up somewhere other than my house making me untargetable"

Untargetable, not simply NK-immune. Tough I think you probably just rephrased what your role-PM said though, taking the word untargetable probably directly from the role-PM itself?

Yeah, I think Azza designed the role to go either way. If Gaz had scanned me when I used the role I would have turned up no result and its likely I could have gotten lynched for that. I don't think my role is especially villagery, I think its pretty neutral, which again just means I'm unconfirmed and that the game is probably well-balanced.