For the nostalgy's sake

[Deceptus]

We are playing a laid back D1 game with a friend - me as a Rogue (I don't have a lot of experience with them so I decided to take one for a spin) and him as a Warrior. No Ironmans and stuff is good, since we almost got killed on the 5 level by a horde of goats. (Thank God for Escape -> New Game) Once we got past the initial boring stages, it got really fun...
I played D1 on battle.net when I was ranging 9 or 10 to 13 years old. I got some success in duels, and had a few high level characters... but never got to 50 level. So I guess it's time to address it.




Currently we're level 9. Stay tuned, I guess. (and to all animephiles there - yes, I know I've spelled Amelia Seyruun's family name wrong. Maybe I will correct it some of these days...)

[Dr.Disaster]

I played D1 on battle.net when I was ranging 9 or 10 to 13 years old. I got some success in duels, and had a few high level characters... but never got to 50 level. So I guess it's time to address it.

A brave attempt because the road to 50 is veeeery long.

My one and only lvl 50 ever needed several months to complete this task. A contant gain of 10 million exp a day made it happen which is about equal to 3 full hell/hell clears.

[Cyrene]

A brave attempt because the road to 50 is veeeery long.

Very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very + . . . long.

Heh.

I had a few 50's. Unlike WOW, this was not because I was an enthusiastic player just playing the game and happened to max a character or two raiding with friends. This is not WOW.

This is D1.

This is nuts.

I got there was because I was (the past tense is debatable) insane.

Personal problems. Nasty divorce. Kids involved. Psychiatry involved. Meds involved. Insomnia involved. Caves involved. Metric assload of Chain Lightning involved. Gamma abuse so I could see the tileset involved. Boy did I get good at hop and chain. And I didn't even have the Lightforge socks .

All that comes after clvls 35-40 is stupid boring pain. Now if you are into that, cool. But there is no joy...

OTOH, I enjoyed seeing Leo again (Run away! Run away!).

--Cy


hmmm, I wonder if I can find my D1 cd again....

[Deceptus]

Lina_Seyrunn is level 32 now, trying her luck on Normal Lazarus runs. What are the other places where you can get some good equipment? My armor is rather outdated for Hell difficulty. (Ya, I tried going for 3@30, and it ended bloodily, but luckily I didn't have trouble with retrieving items)

Also, I can't forgive Blizzard for what they did to Griswold, because of what he sold me: http://img197.imageshack.us/i/milkshakeb...thebo.jpg/
My gratitude knows no bounds.

[Dr.Disaster]

Lina_Seyrunn is level 32 now, trying her luck on Normal Lazarus runs. What are the other places where you can get some good equipment? My armor is rather outdated for Hell difficulty.

Hell is the general place to hunt for top equipment but i'd do the runs at least in nightmare since chances for better modifiers are higher and you'll get better exp. Naturally you'll do full clears!

With a bow-rogue IMO the best armor would be Obsidian armor of (either) Precision, the Stars or the Lion. A high armor class sounds nice but since a ranged character does not like to be caught in melee the resist all prefix is a better overall support and gives you more freedom of choice on jewelry.

If you look for more specific things like the Helm of Sprits take a look into Jarulf's Guide as it gives good hints.

Dr. Disaster

PS: if you plan on going sword/shield get your gal a shield with fast block and at least faster attack on the sword.

[Deceptus]

I have problems with the fact that my AC < 200, so it's really easy for me to die on Hell/Hell and I don't possess anything to repel it. (Vipers kick my ass easily with their zig-zag pattern). And I won't use S&S, because I always saw Rogues as sexy bow wielding action girls.

[KingOfPain]

Tough to remember stat values without looking them up again ;p
According to [size=2][b][size=3]Hell 101 - a Guide for all Classes[/size][/b]- by Charis
[/size]

Note that in Hell/Hell AC 200 is about as useful as no armor at all. Some bosses need more dmg to stun.
*Warriors need 20% less than this value. Again these values are for max effectiveness vs. Blood
Knights. You will do fine with up to 30 or 40 pts less throughout most of hell.

If you can't upgrade your AC by a significant amount to be meaningful, you might as well use your armor slots for other useful stats. Also, on This Page is some awesome tips for going low(er) AC.

As for dem pesky vipers, iirc (meaning my mind is fading, Dave), they only zigzag if they have to room to do so - If you lure them to hug a wall that should stop their walk pattern.

[Dr.Disaster]

I have problems with the fact that my AC < 200, so it's really easy for me to die on Hell/Hell and I don't possess anything to repel it. (Vipers kick my ass easily with their zig-zag pattern). And I won't use S&S, because I always saw Rogues as sexy bow wielding action girls.

Well, how to adress it .. AC is overrated without a shield.

The minimum chance to hit for a melee monster vs. you is:

15% on dungeon levels 1 to 13
20% on dungeon level 14
25% on dungeon level 15
30% on dungeon level 16

No matter what your AC is, you can't get better protection when a shield does not block incoming attacks! Better get used to not entering melee range by evading, StoneCurse or Phasing/Teleport.

Let me show you a little calculation taken from Jarulf's Guide, Battle section, Monster vs. Player. This tells us the final chance to hit of a monster vs. a player:

Chance ToHit = 30 + ToHit(base,monster) + 2*(mlvl-clvl) - Dex/5 - Ac(items,player)

Let's assume you fight a h/h Cave Viper (210 ToHit at mlvl 51), the weakest snake you can meet on dungeon level 13. Let's also assume your dex is maxed and you are wearing a perfect Awesome Full Plate (AC 187.5) beside your Royal Circlet (AC 40 with 10 to all stats). Inserted in the formula above you get:

= 30 + 210 + 2*(51-32) - (250+10)/5 - (187.5+40)

Edit: never trust a calculator or you get a wrong sign like i did *whistle*. Corrections due to that mistake have been made.

= 240 + 2*19 - 260/5 - 227.5
= 240 + 38 - 52 - 227.5
= - 1.5

A negative number sounds perfect BUT! since you are on dungeon level 13 this number is reset to +15 by the game. Due to this "increase" in ToHit your effective AC is the same as if you'd be wearing an armor of AC 187.5 - 1.5 - 15 = 171. The h/h Cave Viper would still have a 15% chance to score a hit.

Keep in mind that for each clvl you gain the critters ToHit is reduced by 2. So at clvl 42 you'd need only AC 151 to get the Cave Viper down to her lowest CTH as above.

Given by the sign mistake i did not notice my conclusion can't be that strong as before. Any grade of Awesome Full Plate will do, no need to look for a perfect one.

You still can dump +AC% prefix on your armor for something more usefull since after all you're a ranged char

[WildViking]

*raises finger for some nitpicking

Doc, you found the right formulas, yet you messed up a sign:

= 30 + 210 + 2*(51-32) - (250+10)/5 - (187.5+40)
= 240 + 2*(-19) - 260/5 - 227.5

51-32 isn't negative in the part of the universe that I live in
thus your calculation is off by 76

but besides that, I have to second what all the posters before me have already stated - AC is highly overrated and on a rogue useless or unnecessary.
A bow is a "ranged" weapon, if a rogue finds herself in melee range, something important has been done wrong already
For your survival, way more important then any AC is the ability to stun, read: do constantly more damage then 63 in hell/hell
Once that is settled, the rest is polishing
On your gear you'll look for obsidian/stars, obsidian/harmony lotsa mana/more mana and of course for stat adder like heavens or zodiac

*if* you really insist on using meaningfull AC in hell/hell:
there is a range for every foe - below that number is meaningless because you're already naked. As Doc pointed out already, above is useless either, because you're past the autohit cap.
for the weakest foes (lava maws) that would be 226-310*
for the strongest (blood knights) it's 301- 385*
*note that from these numbers you still have to subtract twice your charlvl

[Dr.Disaster]

Doc, you found the right formulas, yet you messed up a sign:

51-32 isn't negative in the part of the universe that I live in
thus your calculation is off by 76

Argh! Thx WildViking!

*wanders off to beat up his calculator*