Arise, Riders of Rohanna! Ride for Molach! [SPOILERS!]

[Molach]

Had a bit of a rush yesterday, so just snapped demos (perhaps these will be useufl later on).
I switched from 3/1 forest to 1/2 hill, no other changes in demographics.

Warrior finished EOT. Scout moved back into town, next turn our intrepid stack of doom will sally forth.

The Orcs have gotten a score increase, from 24 -> 31. Didn't notice anything else.

[Ichabod]

Hm, this is fun. Figuring out stuff. I need serious help still, though. I thought it might be someone making something with a bonus. Someone dropped from 11 to 10 beakers as well as dropped to 3 food, which leads me to believe that someone switched a tile, instead of settling a GE - which probably would have upped GNP by 3?

I got passed in MFG, which means someone was producing 3 hammers total and is now producing 6.

I think someone swapped from a 3/0/1 tile to a 1/3/0 one, and had a PH start, along with the hammer from palace. Since I have a pre-placed mine near my capital no reason others couldn't have one too.

Switch could have been to balance teching with worker completion, but also perhaps someone saw a reason to go hammer-heavy for a few turns... I'll know after contact and before any rash declaration I suppose. I'll be careful to send just 1 warrior to make contact, then check graphs and see if I still have a shot before sending rest. I suspect if he sees my little gang he will know what I was planning...

I'll keep you posted about playing some turns, we are staying with people who definately have internet, so only real obstacle is the wife.

I think whoever changed tiles could have done it due to his border pop in the capital, bringing the mine into his culture. Not sure if it fits with the timeline, though, but working a 1/3 tile is better than a 3/0 tile for a worker, anyway.

Have you met Sian yet?

Let us pray to the rush gods now! Let's think positively, I expect Sian to be exploring with his starting units. Better yet, let's expect him to reach size 2 in time for you to take his city, but without being able to get a warrior. This way you got to keep his capital!

[Molach]

I think whoever changed tiles could have done it due to his border pop in the capital, bringing the mine into his culture. Not sure if it fits with the timeline, though, but working a 1/3 tile is better than a 3/0 tile for a worker, anyway.

I seem to remember that borders would have expanded 1 turn before. Could remember wrong, but could also be whoever forgot to change. Not very likely at this point though. 7 hammers per turn into worker for 8 turns gives 56/50, so maybe they wanted research (calendar?) more than they wanted the overflow.

Have you met Sian yet?

No.
Sian got a tech, should be agriculture. But no contact yet, no graphs.

I'll guess I'll post these for posterity....map for turn 7 demos turn 6 & 7 and we are 2 moves out, next turn we will gain contact. I've gotten a score increase due to population (put a turn into a warrior to grow, switched to worker now). Calendar & worker in 8 turns.




Hey! 8 crop yield! Clear lead! Wohoo this game is as good as won.

[Molach]

Played turn, will put up map and graphs and demos in a few hours. But
* Sian's capital is empty atm, on flat but behind river. Also flat tile on my way there, so I could pop worldspell and attack next turn with all soldiers. Otherwise, if it is still empty I could walk scout into his city.
* He did not change his tiles - has worker high commerce and low production.
* Orcs have cast for the horde. (I should cast 'for the horse' soon...)
* I put another turn into warrior at home

We have contact but didn't send off anything.

[Ichabod]

So... the rush may actually work?

[Molach]

Demos:


Assuming he didn't lose anything, I guess Serdoa got +24 000 soldiers from his spell. I got +3000 from a warrior, then +1000 from pop up from my starting 8000. Did serdoa get 8 warriors? How much power for an archer? Can he get goblins? What about those poison-using goblins with 2+1 strength, how much soldier count for them? And for my cabinet of ded-lurkers, what sort of batch of units are likely this early in the game?

Notice that someone has 6000...that should mean they lost their scout?

Graphs:


Sian has been working 3/0/1 tile whole game. Even if he did switch to warrior build it will not complete next turn.

and the MAP:


Re: Event log, what the heck is Muirin?

I chickened out and put another turn into a warrior. It's got 7 hammers, so can finish in emergency in 2 turns. Yeah, just because I'm paranoid it doesn't mean they're not after me.

Upcoming attack: I can pop worldspell and attack capital with all units.
If there is a unit there I need worldspell to win, but can do so directly. Scout probably without loss, warrior I might lose
If there are 2, I think I'll pop the spell, and move in position to attack next turn without crossing river. I move SW-W, next turn SW and E(attack). I think it's a floodplain West of the city, it's certainly a forest south so no attack from there without wasting a turn. However this has a chance to fail spectacularly as he can build a warrior in 2 turns, I guess. A crude sim told me that I will probably win with 2 war + scout + worldspell vs. 1 war + 1 scout defending.
If it's empty I of course walk the scout in.

So if it's defended I can win, but lose my spell. My gains are removing a close neighbour. Perhaps there is a diplomatic solution? I'd need "Never declare war on me" along with a border agreement. He can still win, if someone else destroys me, or by pursuing a non-aggressive win, or by culture-cramping me so bad that I declare on HIM to clear it off, at which point he'll be free to war back with his hearts content.

I don't see it as vassaling (which I might get if his city is open, but feels against the spirit of these games), just a way to completely safe my border with him, which is what the war is all about anyway. If I can accomplish this without blowing worldspell that could actually be for the best. I might need it to break an Orc siege...

I guess I'll see, whats in capital next turn and if he sends any email. Stay tuned!

[Ichabod]

Well, what's a better use for a WS than elliminating a rival? I'd say use it and be happy. You get twice the land of everyone else (not exactly, but pretty much) and you take out a late game power civ. No vassal contract is worth that, only if Sian do something like "I gift you my forst 2 cities and will never attack you...", something that I doubt he'll do.

It's easy to lose the killer eye in these situations, but I advise against it. Lke I've said, there's no other way your WS can give you such a big boost. You'd only use it to win a war, isn't it? So... And with your traits, you're going to shine here. You ar expansive, you can fill the land fast and furious. The plains hill east of the wheat, for instance, can be an awesome second city!

Sian is so close that's hard to think of a way you can win with him still alive. We caught a massive break here and we need to use it. I had the same situation in a previous game and I know the feel. It seems that you can get more with a vassalage agreement. But I hardly see that being the case. Although not easily quantifiable, what we get by rushing Sian is massive.

Regards,

Marshall Ichabod, the Bloody, soon to be enemy-of-elves

P.S.: Not a clue what is Muirin... Isn't it one of those big animals?

P.S. 2: Is sian capital on a hill?

[Ranamar]

I went off and did other things over the weekend again, but you seem to be handling just fine as it is.
(I just feel a little bad that I seem to forget about you every weekend. I guess that's why you're playing and not me, though.)

I'm with Ichabod on this. If you can make the kill, do it. If you need to use the world spell to do so, honestly, this is probably as clear-cut a case for it as anything will be in the game.

Besides, I don't think I've actually ever *seen* a scout capital snipe in one of these games... just various threats of it.

Really, though, I feel like any value to be had in telling another player, "you have to stay out of my way for the rest of the game" is less than just getting that player out of the way permanently, because you'd have to deal with them anyway if you decide to win by conquest. (...which seems likely with such a militarily-inclined civ...)

Besides, as Ichabod said, it'll give us room to go full-on expansionist, which, really, I think, is the only good way to leverage an early rush. (The other option, in SP, is to let the AIs build things for you and then take them, but I don't think that's an option in MP because they're not any better at building those things than you are, and they're just as smart.)

[Ichabod]

Besides, I don't think I've actually ever *seen* a scout capital snipe in one of these games... just various threats of it.

Though I don't want to remember that I got rushed myself that game too.

[Qgqqqqq]

Kyan killed iskender with a scout in '20.