Intersite Game - Turn Discussion Thread

[novice]

novice - instead of setting up a whip cascade, why not whip each item individually, and leave it in the queue until we can build the Taj? then complete each one every other turn, overflowing whip and production into taj?

That is an excellent idea.
I'm too used to 1-turning things.

Two limitations: The builds must be expensive enough that 21 base hpt can be added on top of what's already invested without losing overflow. And we can't start whipping until ~t128 due to being in Caste.

Still, we can probably collect e.g. a whipped Monastery, Theatre and Catapult, and not bother with the cascading.

[novice]

And we can't start whipping until ~t128 due to being in Caste.

However we don't have to do the actual whip until we bring the item back to the front of the build queue. That preserves the population longer but prolongs the ensuing unhappiness.

Sorry about the stream of consciousness posts, I'm probably driving Sullla crazy.

[kjn]

On the marble issue, can I get a confirmation on the status of marble worldwide? My understanding is these are the only 3 sources we know of:

1) CFC's unhooked marble that we are promised a loan on eventually, but not necessarily in time for Taj.
2) The marble between German team and WPC that neither have hooked
3) CivFr's source.

That is correct given our current knowledge. I just logged in to check.

I also agree with your thinking on that we should at least try to get marble, at least a short while.

[Sullla]

Honestly, I've looked at the math on this, and Adventure One can simply build Taj Mahal in 19 turns by setting up full production overflow on something on the first turn. Like novice said, the base rate is 21 production per turn, which gets modified by 50% from Bureaucracy and 25% from Organized Religion for 36 production/turn. If we get a barracks or something to 49/50 production and overflow the full 35 shields, it looks like this:

(35 + 36 first turn = 71) + (36 * 18 = 648) = 719 production

So all of the suggested whipping does is reduce the ETA from 19 turns down to 18 turns. It also means that our capital will be whipping off of some extremely strong grassland cottage tiles that we probably want to be working anyway. I'm also not even sure that we can run 21 base production/turn if we are doing 4 different one-pop whips in the next couple of turns. At size 14, the capital doesn't exactly grow population quickly.

Long story short: this feels like a classic RB case of overcomplicating stuff. There's really no need to do all these elaborate 1t overflow chains. I mean, would we really want to delay a market for 8 turns and whip the capital multiple times to cut the wonder's finish date from 19t down to 18t? Yes, insert standard argument about how one turn can sometimes make the difference, I know. But let's not cut off our noses to spite our face either. We should have Alphabet tech long before we get close to finishing Taj, we should be able to see what techs everyone else has, and we'll have the option to whip the wonder to completion and/or chop the grassland deer forest for a bonus shot of production. I honestly don't think anyone else beats us to Taj without a Great Engineer if we go for the eot 130 Liberalism plan, just because no one else will be able to reach Nationalism tech that fast.

* * * * * * * *

By all means, see if you can get the Germans to trade us marble. I think that's something worth pursuing. I probably wouldn't waste my time with CFC, but feel free to take a shot there as well, if only by way of fishing for info.

[novice]

Why do I get the feeling you didn't read our posts, Sullla?

By prebuilding various stuff to 1 hammer short of completion, we can whip one of those every other turn during the Taj Mahal build. Each whip will add 29 base hammers to the wonder on top of our natural production, significantly speeding it up. And if we're doing four 1-pop whips, they can be delayed to the final 8 turns of the TM build. So this is not about just shaving one turn off the finish date. In fact this plan would be worth implementing even if we weren't racing anyone. We'll be whipping away cottages, but they will be worked by neighbouring cities, and when the TM completes, we'll work those cottages again instead of the hill tiles.

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

This happens when I'm not busy at work. Welcome to crazytown...

Obvious solution is that we plant a temporary city on the marble and then gift it to CFC after the war.

4W/1N of Spanish team's KwaDukuza city. I do not know exactly how many tiles CFC is east to west. This tile is as far east as the furthest tile under CFC control.

CFC marble. We could (not saying it's even remotely a good idea) build a settler, name it Lend-Lease Program, march it through CFC territory, and plant on the marble. Send a military escort just in case, maybe a WE to show that we have it. The city would be instantly connected by the river and viola, marble. Then gift the city away when we're done with it. This is absolute insanity, but 65h for a settler + 350h Taj <<< 700h for Taj without marble, before any other modifiers (OR/forge/Bureau) are considered. I'm just thinking (way) outside the box here.



German marble. I doubt we could convince them to give this to us, even if we threaten them, which tips our hand on the invasion later. Not that they shouldn't expect to be steamrolled when our NAP is up anyway. CivFr has the only other marble resource that I'm aware of, confirmed when we met them via trade screen.

I would not expect to hold any ludicrously far-flung city long at all. So we'd need a place to chop the Taj.



This is the best location I could find looking through recent screenshots, and this would still leave us short. 6*75h chops (assuming forge + OR + marble) = 450/700. There are still 4 fogged tiles in this potential BFC and with any luck we'd get a couple more forests here. If not, move it 1N to get the sheep. I don't want to think of building this with chops without MC, so we work that into some kind of chain before we start building.

I know this is a horrible city and is horrible for our dotmap. It has only one purpose: Taj. Feel free to start flinging mud on this "plan".

[Bigger]

Why do I get the feeling you didn't read our posts, Sullla?

By prebuilding various stuff to 1 hammer short of completion, we can whip one of those every other turn during the Taj Mahal build. Each whip will add 29 base hammers to the wonder on top of our natural production, significantly speeding it up. And if we're doing four 1-pop whips, they can be delayed to the final 8 turns of the TM build. So this is not about just shaving one turn off the finish date. In fact this plan would be worth implementing even if we weren't racing anyone. We'll be whipping away cottages, but they will be worked by neighbouring cities, and when the TM completes, we'll work those cottages again instead of the hill tiles.

why wait until we're building it to whip? why not whip a barracks now, and leave 94/50(or whatever) hammers in the queue. rinse and repeat. that gives us plenty of time to regrow the pop so we're not low on pop during the taj golden age.

edit: we don't have to do kill our population doing this with every possible build.. we can just do it 2-3 times if doing it more would hurt our pop too much.

[Fintourist]

About 1-pop whippings: According to my very quick and rough math, one optimized whip overflow will improve our Taj Mahal ETA by about 1.4 turns. I agree with Sullla that whipping away cottages from AO is not desirable, but I'm pretty sure that 2 or 3 one-pop whips will hit the sweetspot. 16t Taj with two whips seems doable, maybe even a 14t Taj with 3 whips, but I bet we end up couple of hammers short there.

[novice]

Feel free to start flinging mud on this "plan".

* flings mud *
(Just to pick one objection, I don't think you can set up such a city fast enough that it can compete with just building TM in AO.)

why wait until we're building it to whip? why not whip a barracks now, and leave 94/50(or whatever) hammers in the queue. rinse and repeat. that gives us plenty of time to regrow the pop so we're not low on pop during the taj golden age.

We'll have to figure this out in a specific micro plan. But we might need the production power prior to getting Nationalism, just to be able to prepare all the prebuilds that we'll want, and because we need to be at 21hpt when Nationalism comes in. Also, we'll be in caste for most of the setup period. But yeah, we'll have some flexibility here and can figure out the specifics as we make the micro plan.

[kalin]

To all plans that involve a new city: keep in mind that we have like 9-10 turns until we'd start building Taj. Building a settler (without slavery) and moving it in position is unlikely in our time frame...

Kalin