WW22 - Diaries of the Madmen

[thestick]

Lynch:
Lewwyn (2) novice Jkaen
zakalwe (2) Qgqqqq Ryan
Azza (2) zakalwe Mattimeo
Mattimeo (1) uberfish
Jkaen (1) Lewwyn
Qgqqqqq (1) Azza
Tasunke (1) Gazglum

Not voting: Tasunke

1. Lewwyn votes for Mattimeo (1)
2. Qgqqqq votes for zakalwe (1)
3. zakalwe votes for Azza (1)
4. Ryan votes for zakalwe (2)
5. Gazglum votes for Tasunke (1)
6. novice votes for Lewwyn (1)
7. Jkaen votes for Lewwyn (2)
8. uberfish votes for Ryan (1)
9. uberfish switches from Ryan (0) to Mattimeo (2)
10. Azza votes for Qgqqqqq (1)
11. Mattimeo votes for Azza (2)
12. Lewwyn switches from Mattimeo (1) to Jkaen (1)

Mayor
uberfish (2) novice Jkaen
Gazglum (1) Qgqqqqq
Lewwyn (1) Lewwyn

1. Lewwyn votes for Lewwyn (1)
2. novice votes for uberfish (1)
3. Qgqqqq votes for Gazglum (1)
4. Jkaen votes for uberfish (2)

[Lewwyn]

BTW Serious campaign for Mayor is serious.

Vote Lewwyn for Mayor.

[Qgqqqqq]

I find the idea of a puppet/puppeteer role as not overly anti-town - it sounds to me like a creative take on the double vote power, too weaken it/strengthen it depending on the players alignment.
Do you have any other information pertaining to this azza?

I find the way you claimed vaguely suspicious - not quite first post which implies you aren't policy claiming it as a miller claim/other anti-town claims, but still trying to push it out early, and in a vaguely off-hand way.

As to your points - why would you policy lynch me "obviously"?
The "I couldn't stand losing to a wolf that did that" is anti-town play IMO
As to policy-lynching, I would say a) its a bad idea in general (apart from lynch all liars) as the discussion distracts from serious play and leads the town down unimportant paths, dominating the village and allowing wolves to glide, and b) I would say we have policy lynches quite a lot, just never phrased as such.

I see jkaens statement as different, more suited around "there's not much reason for it, but why not kill Lewwyn for xyz"

[Lewwyn]

I see jkaens statement as different, more suited around "there's not much reason for it, but why not kill Lewwyn for xyz"

But "xyz" here is that I haven't been killed early lately and its framed as a random vote. That's fine.

I also think Azza saying policy lynching the miller on Day 1 gives me a town lean on him, but I think he's wrong about lynching Q. To draw a parallel, I think Azza is reprising the Rowain role from the item game in which he said lets lynch the fool card. I don't think Azza is guilty, but misguided and I also think that people voting for Azza are looking for an easy mislynch, I doubt they even realized how it resembles the Rowain lynch from that game. But look who jumped on it? Mattimeo! I think Zak was voting for Azza before Azza voted for Q so the above line of thinking doesn't apply to him yet.

Mattimeo is looking for scapegoats.

[Azza]

We almost never policy lynch though. What we do is question people, and inevitably end up on a relatively easy target. That's not a policy lynch. There's talk about policy lynches, but it never pans out.

Also, I know my role, and that makes me think we wouldn't have a miller as well. I am a puppet, which means my puppet master can change my vote. They don't have to do it, but they can. I suspect my master is scum, otherwise what's the point? So having a puppet and a miller, two detrimental town roles, seems unlikely to me.

Well that is a different kettle of fish.

How much detail did your pm go into? Will it be public knowledge if your vote is changed? Can your master change your vote to anything, or only to copy their own?

I suppose your master doesn't have to be scum, but even if they're town, I agree that is at best a neutral role. And if we have 3 wolves, 2 non-positive town roles starts to look a little harsh.

And just to fill my paranoia quotient for the day - I've never seen the puppet role before, and the last game you played you fakeclaimed a post restriction. Can anyone verify if a puppet has come up in WW before?

If the master chooses to change my vote, it's not revealed until after the deadline. As far as I'm aware, they can change it to whatever they wish.

If my master is town, then my role is purely to screw with me. Unless someone else has a "fuck you" type role, it makes way more sense that my vote is controlled by scum.

I find the idea of a puppet/puppeteer role as not overly anti-town - it sounds to me like a creative take on the double vote power, too weaken it/strengthen it depending on the players alignment.
Do you have any other information pertaining to this azza?

It's not a double vote, it's a redistribution of votes. I have no voting power unless the puppetmaster is killed or the puppetmaster chooses not to change my vote.

I find the way you claimed vaguely suspicious - not quite first post which implies you aren't policy claiming it as a miller claim/other anti-town claims, but still trying to push it out early, and in a vaguely off-hand way.

I had a PM exchange with thestick to try to find some sort of advantage I could take out of it before claiming. I claimed when I came to the conclusion that my role is just anti-town.

As to your points - why would you policy lynch me "obviously"?
The "I couldn't stand losing to a wolf that did that" is anti-town play IMO
As to policy-lynching, I would say a) its a bad idea in general (apart from lynch all liars) as the discussion distracts from serious play and leads the town down unimportant paths, dominating the village and allowing wolves to glide, and b) I would say we have policy lynches quite a lot, just never phrased as such.

I see jkaens statement as different, more suited around "there's not much reason for it, but why not kill Lewwyn for xyz"

For a start, I don't think I ever used the word "obviously". But the concept is quite simple. You made a practically unverifiable claim of an anti-town role. Now is the time for policy lynches, you don't policy lynch at LyLo. However, I'd also be ok with policy lynching me, as I'm dangerous to the town right now. So with that in mind, Azza.

[novice]

TheStick, you should post a vanilla Role PM. Or rather, since everybody has abilities, a Role PM template.

[Qgqqqqq]

...

If the master chooses to change my vote, it's not revealed until after the deadline. As far as I'm aware, they can change it to whatever they wish.

If my master is town, then my role is purely to screw with me. Unless someone else has a "fuck you" type role, it makes way more sense that my vote is controlled by scum.

I disagree with this, and think its perfectly possible that its a village power

It's not a double vote, it's a redistribution of votes. I have no voting power unless the puppetmaster is killed or the puppetmaster chooses not to change my vote.

This does not stop it being a doublevoting power...

For a start, I don't think I ever used the word "obviously". But the concept is quite simple. You made a practically unverifiable claim of an anti-town role. Now is the time for policy lynches, you don't policy lynch at LyLo. However, I'd also be ok with policy lynching me, as I'm dangerous to the town right now. So with that in mind, Azza.

Oh come on...

Ignoring the martyrdom complex (), how is it an anti-town role?
It harms a roles utility, but unlike the card, once its out its out, all it means is I cannot be confirmed scum or villager by a seer.
Yours may well be a town puppeteer (on an unrelated note, these powers make me think of a two wolf pack...) and even so I don't think it warrants a policy lynch.



I agree with novice.

[Lewwyn]

Well. Even if Azza votes for himself, if the master is town then the master can wield Azza's vote away from himself. It might be that Azza is attempting to get the master to use his power to either reveal himself to Azza or use up his power if it is limited use. Thus Azza's selfvote makes sense because he's trying to determine who the master is and get out from under his control.

My question is, is this village friendly? What if both the master and Azza are villagers? Doesn't that make this ploy distracting for the rest of the village and harmful to the village?

Azza why don't you just tell us who is suspicious and play normally, unless there is in fact something you're not revealing about what happens when someone moves your vote.


BTW Q and Ryan why are you voting for Zak? Beyond the fact that he survived last game.

[Ryan]

Nothing till now Lewwyn just thinking generally. I don't like the we should policy lynch millers due to memories of novice in ww19. Your analysis on Azza makes sense, but you need to Remmber Azza in fact can be scum controlled by a village aswell. I can't really vote anyone on since no one is standing out to me except Uberfish. His vote on me then switch felt suspicious. I think answering role related question day 1 will be pretty hard since we don't have any idea about rest of the roles.

Jkean barley participates but he's prob busy. Q being inquisitive this early felt new to me

[Azza]

Azza why don't you just tell us who is suspicious and play normally, unless there is in fact something you're not revealing about what happens when someone moves your vote.

Post #52 is more or less my thoughts if I were a vanilla villager, instead of this weird voteless thing.