WW22 - Diaries of the Madmen

[Azza]

Im confused why the two neighbours are accusing each other about their roles. Very strange.

[novice]

Novice I really dislike the role template demand. Feels crazy to ask for a cheat sheet of all the roles. That makes it really easy for scum to win the game. I also like matti's point that a GM removing ambiguity from a role seems weird.

I'm just asking for a template of what a town role PM would look like. e.g:

<player>, you are <role name>.

<List abilities>

You win with the town.

I realize that Matt's role name claim could be a red herring, but it's enough for me not to trust him so I'm bringing the discussion here to the game thread where everybody can weigh in. Also to get the matter discussed before the deadline.

[Lewwyn]

I'll address the rest of this later, but
@Ryan: novice isn't asking for a template of roles, he's asking for the standard villager role pm which is usually provided for games where there are vanilla roles.
See ww19 if you don't believe me.which I find to be a stupid reason to pursue someone.
Why he wants it is a different kettle of fish, and likely centres around town/village wordplay...

Yeah but didn't thestick say no vanilla roles? Meaning no vanilla or standard role PMs? I mean that makes his request a bit like fishing and I agree its not productive and if anything distracting.

[Azza]

Hmm, I don't like novice's contributions to the neighbour thread all that much. Not sure I want to try and lynch him for it though. Probably second choice behind Jkaen as far as suspicious people go. I still back the Q policy lynch though.

[Mattimeo]

You're not considering that we might both be town, and you're not considering that TheStick could have messed up the role PMs.

You don't seem to be, either...

Im confused why the two neighbours are accusing each other about their roles. Very strange.

Neighbours have a tendancy to be from differing factions. In theory it's a standard chance of a random player being scum as a neighbour being scum, but in practice it skews more towards differing factions, as all-town neighbours are generally masons instead.

[Qgqqqqq]

Big xpost, my last was composed after Ryan.
(This is after the convo dump from novice ftr)

I'm not entirely sure we're supposed to post timestamped messages in here - didn't that come up when Molach kept a diary?

I disagree Lewwyn, I've been finding jkaen normal, especially with the latest post (though this may be due to agreeing with everything he's said )

The which I... was supposed to go at the end BTW, and refers to novice, not Lewwyn

Fake edit: yeah thats where I was going with it Lewwyn - I don't think its normal for this type (21 didn't have one right?)

About Matt/novice: a) as said, I think its a stupid reason to pursue someone,
b) this is because the words are really interchangeable. and its perfectly possible that thestick just typed them out separately.
c) I don't think that there is a high chance one is scum either...though I doubt both are.

[Lewwyn]

Im confused why the two neighbours are accusing each other about their roles. Very strange.

Agree. For me it comes down to who's more suspicious.

And is novice posting the QT more suspicious or less suspicious? I'm glad to see the thread, but it doesn't help much. I can't tell if novice is acting or really just thought he was a mason. Or if he was trying to trap Mattimeo. Or if he's scum trying to trap him by "protecting" him from me early only to "turn" on him later.

Prisoners dilemma says we're better off lynching neither than lynching either since that could lead to lynching both. If they are both villagers (which is possible) then scum would know and want to lynch one of the two. If one is scum we can wait surely we have some abilities?

If novice is villager he's played naively, followed by paranoidly, which is not really uncommon for a villager who doesn't know alignments.

Mattimeo only turned on novice after novice attacked him. Could be a villager reaction, but it could also be self preservation. He doesn't have too much of a case beyond "novice is attacking me".

I'd prefer to lynch Mattimeo (obviously) of the two, but I'd prefer to simply ignore them and possibly have a seer or investigative role look into matt or novice during the night.

[Qgqqqqq]

Of the two id definitely prefer to lynch novice, because I think he's been acting very strange, and he is suspicious while mattisnt (IMO).

I agree that it can wait for now.

[novice]

You're not considering that we might both be town, and you're not considering that TheStick could have messed up the role PMs.

You don't seem to be, either...

Yes I am:

I realize that Matt's role name claim could be a red herring, but it's enough for me not to trust him so I'm bringing the discussion here to the game thread where everybody can weigh in. Also to get the matter discussed before the deadline.

Yeah but didn't thestick say no vanilla roles? Meaning no vanilla or standard role PMs? I mean that makes his request a bit like fishing and I agree its not productive and if anything distracting.

Like I pointed out in the post before yours (maybe you crossposted) I was asking for a role PM template. I even provided an example.

I think trying to vote based on the specific role PM words is folly.

About Matt/novice: a) as said, I think its a stupid reason to pursue someone,
b) this is because the words are really interchangeable. and its perfectly possible that thestick just typed them out separately.

Matt got two things wrong: He said town instead of village, and he said a instead of the. The reason I got suspicious in the first place was that it said "The" in my role PM, which indicates I'm the only village neighbour.

If we're both town, why would thestick type out the role pm's separately? Shouldn't it be a copy and paste job?

So here's the timeline:
1. I notice the word "The" in my role PM.
2. I question Mattimeo about in a way where he should get it if his PM says "The" as well.
3. He doesn't get it, so I ask more specifically what his role description is.
4. He quotes more than he should have, so I'll feel a bit bad if he is scum and is nailed because of this.
5. I ask in the game thread for the a village role pm template to be posted.
(at this point I imagine a scum Mattimeo would realize he messed up somehow.)
6. I claim neighbour and vote Mattimeo, but not for the role PM thing.
7. Mattimeo comes out guns blazing accusing me of having something to hide in my role PM. In other words, Mattimeo knows that this is about the role PM.
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[novice]

Also note that Mattimeo didn't shrug off the role PM discrepancy as irrelevant. He straight out accused me of lying about my role PM.