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Quote:strengthen this line of enquiry...
So, earlier, you were criticizing me for assuming the scum would play differently than I would, now you're criticizing me for assuming the scum would play as I would. What exactly do you want from me?
Yes, it's possible he is being framed. What I want to know is why would the mafia frame someone who they would probably think they can mislynch without framing them?
Why can't the tracker be scum? And a watcher could've potentially been watching Lewwyn last night, so they might've seen Jkaen visiting Lewwyn.
No I'm accusing you for trying to manipulate events towards your cases, and that you are attributing ideas to them.
In this case you are trying to find a specific justification and say it means he is scum - not considering the alternatives.
As to framing, I think that's a side effect, more of a just let people do the work for you, not specifically trying to get him lunches for ant reason. Basically, I don't think its relevant who the mafia killed as there a bunch of reasons mafia do things, and I want you to James a case not based on that.
I don't think a tracker can't be scam, I just don't think that evidence is relevant, as if there is a scum tracker then its of no relevance, and if there's a village tracker (only reason for jkaen to want it knowb that he investigated Lewwyn) then jkaen claiming ensures his death.
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Quote:Just because it's a day 1 read doesn't mean it was wrong.
No but I didn't say, that, I contested that Lewwyns vote was locked in, and feel that it being day 1 meant he's more likely to see something else that grabbed him etc. etc. which means that his death doesn't argue as to jkaens guilt as you implied.
on which note I'm going to sleep.
Sorry but don't have time to write about rest...
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On the puppet stuff: I've been thinking about this overnight. I didn't give Ryan town points just because he claimed. I gave him town points because of the timing of his claim, because most people were saying that the puppetmaster was likely scum for the Azza unvote, and he'd risk eating a policy lynch for it. Further, if he is scum puppet master then he almost certainly has to be solo at this point as 3 scum + a puppet vote is way too much for 11 players, so I don't think he can be saving Q. I know if I was a scum Ryan in this situation I'd just keep my mouth shut and let the town point fingers at each other for being the puppetmaster. Well, Ryan's not "confirmed" obviously but I'm more confident that he is town than Azza (As Ryan's answers to my questions yesterday and today have also been satisfactory) so I'm ok with Ryan having this ability in play
I also don't like at all that Gazglum was calling me suspicious for putting forward a "2 and a half scum theory" with 1 town / 1 scum in the puppet duo, and he's now using the same theory as part of his argument for lynching Azza.
More later when I have time
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Azza you seem to be casting round desperately now for anybody mislynchable (I note you didnt pick up and follow on novices zak vote, about the only wagon you dont seem interested in - too little chance of success?)
It is very unlikely that the scum would have a tracker I think in this game, hence if you believe I am the tracker (which I admit there is no evidence for) that should give me a good village lean.
Plus with regards a potential watcher, I am sure if one was on Lewwyn last night they would have come forward by now to confirm they saw me visit him
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(April 8th, 2013, 00:27)novice Wrote: TheStick, you should post a vanilla Role PM. Or rather, since everybody has abilities, a Role PM template.
Ok, so the timeline is that everything in the neighbor thread happened before this post. For some reason I thought the quizzing about role PMs happened in between the claim and the thread dump.
It's possible that they didn't realize that the shit would/had hit the fan until Novice pointed out the actual the village/a town mismatch. Mattimeo did react as if he was caught red-handed, though. But we shouldn't assume perfect coordination and communication between the wolves either, so that doesn't necessarily mean that his buddies were able to react. (Or that they wanted to bus him, in the first place.)
In short, we can't really clear any of the Mattimeo voters, other than Lewwyn and 99% Novice.
I still think there's a strong meta reason for lynching Azza, and his contribution to "catching" Mattimeo can really be seen both ways, but I think he's putting up a good fight. So I'm open to lynching Jkaen, too. Everybody else is slightly less suspicious.
Q. The point you missed is that they could be worried about a village watcher (not tracker).
If you know what I mean.
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(April 11th, 2013, 05:50)Jkaen Wrote: Plus with regards a potential watcher, I am sure if one was on Lewwyn last night they would have come forward by now to confirm they saw me visit him
Why would he do that?
If you know what I mean.
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Zak,
I think I address uberfishes issues with my play as he listed them out clearly for me (uber let me know if i didnt), do you want to clearly state what the issues with my play are so I can address them for you?
As to the watcher, surely any time scum make a kill they would be suspect, why would I panic speficially about this one to claim I visited him?
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(April 11th, 2013, 05:53)zakalwe Wrote: (April 11th, 2013, 05:50)Jkaen Wrote: Plus with regards a potential watcher, I am sure if one was on Lewwyn last night they would have come forward by now to confirm they saw me visit him
Why would he do that?
I would think that is pretty critical information to todays discussion, although I guess you are stating that you believe 100% i did visit Lewwyn, its just the nature of that visit in doubt?
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Yes. As scum, you would visit Lewwyn to kill him, and presumably want to establish an alibi for that visit, to cover your bases. Basically, stray as little from the truth as possible, so that there are fewer ways to catch you in a lie. So if you're scum, I'd also say you're likely to be a scum tracker.
If Q is innocent, you'll be suspecting that there is a village seer out there, but probably no village tracker. So you claim tracker, which may or may not be your real ability, to dissuade people from lynching you. Then you also have the option to go out with a bang on day 3, fingering someone as scum with a fake tracking result. Or maybe just prove your real tracking ability, for credibility. Either way, if you can mount a decent defense today, there's a good chance that you'll be let off the hook for one more day with a "find a scum or hang" ultimatum.
There would be no point for a watcher to out himself just to confirm that you visited Lewwyn, since that does absolutely nothing to clear you.
If you know what I mean.
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Yes they would, as if jkaen was Lewwyn s only visitor then he killed him, and if not then the watcher could reveal the scum.
@zak: based off what I read during '16, I generally consider tracker and watcher one and the same (mafiascum.net classifies it as a a subset).
Still good point, but I don't think both would exist in such a small game.
@Uber agree that 3+puppet is too much, which is one of the reasons I think that its unlikely to be a scum rope (and argued so earlier). I think a puppet scum might allow 4 of them though, so we should be wary.
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