[SPOILERS] Lewger goes for the Bigwyn

[Qgqqqqq]

LOL
Thats a hilarious way to make contact - like when someone got a GS in PB7 and contacted everyone thataway.

[Bigger]

Could you have better trade routes because you've only been at war with Azza and serdoa? The others aren't getting the peace bonii... or do the closed borders with Azza mean your trade routes are actually all over sea?

yes, the "years of peace" bonus is a big part of it. we don't have open borders with azza or serdoa (or plako either, since neither of us have alphabet), but have it with everyone else who we have been at peace w/, so we're able to pick from the best routes.

still, scooter has been at peace w/ everyone alive except commodore, and as far as I know slowcheetah hasn't warred with anyone all game - they both have intercontinental routes with everyone else and slowcheetah has more cities than us, so I don't understand how we're killing them in trade route yield.

But, whatever, not gonna complain . looking forward to harbors and free market .

[Old Harry]

How many cities do you/Slow have? And do you know who is first in theoretical turn order?

Oh and I'm looking forward to more

[Bigger]

we have 15 now that we have captured A7x (so I guess 14 bringing in trade routes).

slowcheetah and commodore both have 19-21.

I think scooter has around 12.

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

Larger civs tend to run a trade deficit because they provide more cities/routes than they get back from each smaller opponent they trade with. A civ with 20 cities would need to trade with two civs of 10 cities each to fill out its routes (assuming all international routes), but each of the two civs would have surplus routes and would probably have a better trade value because there is a possibility that the best 10 of the 20 available cities from the larger civ would have modifiers in place (city size, harbors, etc) that would increase the net value of each route. I believe that this also factors into the trade route value on the demographics screen.

[Bigger]

Larger civs tend to run a trade deficit because they provide more cities/routes than they get back from each smaller opponent they trade with. A civ with 20 cities would need to trade with two civs of 10 cities each to fill out its routes (assuming all international routes), but each of the two civs would have surplus routes and would probably have a better trade value because there is a possibility that the best 10 of the 20 available cities from the larger civ would have modifiers in place (city size, harbors, etc) that would increase the net value of each route. I believe that this also factors into the trade route value on the demographics screen.

well actually you'd need 40 cities to full up 10, assuming you have currency.

so I guess the stat just means we're taking in more routes than we are giving out, not necessarily that we're profitting the most from trade routes?

I guess that means slowcheetah would actually be low, since everybody he has open borders with will get his routes, while he can only get his cities X2 routes. same w/ scooter, but scooters much higher than slowcheetah thanks to the great lighthouse.

[Boldly Going Nowhere]

well actually you'd need 40 cities to full up 10, assuming you have currency.

And so on with Free Market, GLH, Cothons, etc.

so I guess the stat just means we're taking in more routes than we are giving out, not necessarily that we're profitting the most from trade routes?

In this case, both are true. When you are running a surplus (as indicated on the demos screen), you are, in aggregate, taking in more in routes than your opponents are from you. In this game, you're currently #1 in this category, so that makes the second part true as well, though that may not always be the case. #Routes doesn't necessarily mean highest profit, though, as someone else could have fewer (though likely not many) routes that are, in sum, more profitable, due to city size, peace bonus, and presence of route modifiers (harbor, customs house).

I guess that means slowcheetah would actually be low, since everybody he has open borders with will get his routes, while he can only get his cities X2 routes. same w/ scooter, but scooters much higher than slowcheetah thanks to the great lighthouse.

Can't comment here.

[Bigger]

ok, let's take a minute to discuss win condition.
Right now the civs are in 3 categories:
1) The main contenders: Commodore, slowcheetah, plako, and serdoa. all pretty competitive in score and tech. we aren't that far behind and could catch up if we take out azza and/or get the taj.
2) also rans/2nd world: us, Scooter, azza. azza is in danger of dropping out of this category soon, but he hasn't really been that far behind us so far. we have the potential to move to 1, but we aren't there yet.
3) barely alive: Brick, xenu, merohoc. all are in danger of being eliminated as soon as their big neighbor decides it. merohoc should be eliminated soon, brick probably isn't that far behind, and I don't see why serdoa would stop at that point and not just take out xenu too.

here's my point: there's no clear runaway. the top 4 are really very competitive with each other, and those in category 2 aren't that far behind. domination/conquest victory (or the game being called when its clearly going that way) seems extremely unlikely. commodore can probably take out scooter if he commits completely to building the navy and army required, and serdoa can take out brick and xenu, but I don't see how any of the big 4 will be able to make any progress against any of the others.

other ways the game could end:
- boredom, people giving up: with basically 6 competitive empires I don't see this happening. I'm having a ball myself and won't be conceding.
diplo (un/apostolic). would require 3-4 empires at least voting for one, also seems unlikely. and cheesy of course. i would abstain if we aren't a candidate.

so that pretty much leaves culture and space race as the two likely victory conditions. this game is not ending soon =).

so we need to decide how seriously we want to win. If we want to just have fun, we should conquer azza then plan on going to war w/ serdoa as soon as we can build up sufficient force and catch up w/ him on techs (probably riflemen).. If we want to go all out trying to win, we should conquer azza, then turtle up for the rest of the game and try to get a culture victory (I don't think we can win a space race). btw, we have 4 of the world's religions in our cities atm, and will have access to the other 2 by the time we take our azza, so cathedral's won't be a problem (also will have all the modifiers I think once we get the stone). Islam hasn't been founded yet, of course.

If we want to pursue a culture victory, I think we should consider trying to land the sistene chapel. but we would need to decide this turn (which could mean 3-4 days since we are pausing for the weekend).

we can research music in 1.5 turns, so overflow into philosophy. sistene costs 600 hammers. we produce 21/ a turn in gilgamesh, but with all the modifiers we can put 73/turn into the chapel, so finish it 8 turns (with overflow from a mace). so basically 4 maces we'll have to make up in other cities - but we're going to be at a stalemate for azza for the next 10 turns or so anyway (building up our navy and our eastern army, and securing Beowulf), so that may not be a big deal.

currently only plako has music, I think - but his persistent attempt at getting marble from us makes me think he's considering building sistene and going after the same victory condition - so we need to start it now.

Lewwyn, what do you think? If you don't want to try a cultural after doing that already w/ pb6, I'm cool with nixing the plan. I wouldnt mind conquering azza then coming up with a plan to go after serdoa as well <G>.
although i do think cultural victory is our best chance of winning.

[Bigger]

ok someone tell me what the fuck happenned here.
yesterday when i took a7x


today im looking around:


where the hell did the courthouse go? we got no notifications of a spy attack.

that stupid OS sync error happenned the second I took the city.. I think Scooter was trying to log on. would that have caused a phantom building?

seriously sucks.

[Lewwyn]

Booo sync errors!

I agree with you that the only feasible win for us would be culture, though I think even that seems a bit difficult. If we want culture win we need, need, need Sistine. I am totally fine with going for that. Just because I did it in PB6 doesn't mean I can never do it again. We're not winning space or domination, and is diplo win off? I'm fine with going for culture. It can be fun. SO yeah lets try to get sistine!

BTW I think we should dry whip a walls in A7x first over the theatre.