Arise, Riders of Rohanna! Ride for Molach! [SPOILERS!]

[Molach]

Ranamar - Yes, I checked the timing, and didn't like 9 turns for exploration just now. (would of course be less considering plantations getting online, but would rather get mining asap). Worker will not be idle with new city getting up, don't know what I was thinking. Perhaps that settler would take longer. I can farm the wheat and a floodplain (which should take a while I think, elf on desert not so hot...). Worker II can complete a turn ahead of mining, then go mine. So definately settler now, hopefully 2 warriors will be enough for hilly cities. New warrior would be pretty quick to build after settler, he can play zone defense.

[Molach]

Finally, a turn.

Up north, my scout met up with some demons.


Note: There is ocean north of the broken sepulcher, that's why this is only way past.
Question time.
Do such fires always stay over 'burning sands' terrain, or might the flames die out? Is it possible mapmaker put a permanent flame there, and that is why surrounding countryside is catching smoke and fire? To pass I'll need spring or fire resistant units (demon is promoted magic immune, and I tested, he can pass. Scout cannot)

For ded-lurkers - should I pass the tile? This unit is the only one for a good while that can go through. It can defend pretty well - first due to stoneskin, then it will be promoted and 2/4 strength. Perhaps I should pop the sepulcher in a while too. Hate to see someone else do it and either gain something good for themselves or something bad for me. I'd wait for my scout to clear away a bit. Is this a 3-turn-to-open feature like dungeons? Do I need to open this (and the pyre) to access the mana?

And this also goes for the pyre - the death and the fire mana - they just need the road and will be added to my supply, right? The other stuff around looks like they need elementalism/sorcery to activate.

Demographics, and top 4 cities.

Down south. Included this to show production at capital - 6 more turns on settler. I will lose 2 hammers from moving to 2/1 forest to 2/0/6 dye but will not affect finish time, only the overflow. Borders will pop with settler done, so should be safe to send it out. After settler warrior while I grow a size. Probably worker after that, or one more warrior. Will see what barbarian activity will be like.


After ending turn, the Griffon moved towards my warrior, and is now 2 tiles away. Will attack after my next turn. By not moving to safety this turn I guess I threw the dice. If I lose it will just mean settler will have to stay 3 turns while I build a replacement, I'll recall my scout from up north if he dies to secure the city founding. But I'm still owed some combat luck from the RNG, so confident I'll win.

[Ichabod]

Answers/Opinions in the quote.

Do such fires always stay over 'burning sands' terrain, or might the flames die out?

As far as I know, they stay forever. And if you spring them, they'll return after a turn, I think (happened to me in the team FfH PBEM). You'd need spring + sanctify to get rid of that thing (not even sure if sanctify works on preplaced hell terrain).

Is it possible mapmaker put a permanent flame there, and that is why surrounding countryside is catching smoke and fire?

No, burning sands create fires automatically. And the fires spread to nearby tiles.

To pass I'll need spring or fire resistant units (demon is promoted magic immune, and I tested, he can pass. Scout cannot)

I think Demon units can pass flames because of the demon race, not the magic immunity. Not sure, though. i don't think a fire resistant unit could pass the flames.

For ded-lurkers - should I pass the tile?

In my opinion, yes. And I'd open the Sepulcher as soon as possible.

This unit is the only one for a good while that can go through. It can defend pretty well - first due to stoneskin, then it will be promoted and 2/4 strength. Perhaps I should pop the sepulcher in a while too. Hate to see someone else do it and either gain something good for themselves or something bad for me. I'd wait for my scout to clear away a bit. Is this a 3-turn-to-open feature like dungeons?

I don't know.

Do I need to open this (and the pyre) to access the mana?

And this also goes for the pyre - the death and the fire mana - they just need the road and will be added to my supply, right? The other stuff around looks like they need elementalism/sorcery to activate.

I think you get the mana with just a road on the feature, be it the pyre or the Sepulcher. But, if you open the dungeon, than you'll need the arcane tech, because the mana that remain in the tile will be unimproved.

[Ranamar]

I concur entirely with Ichabod. (And he gave good mechanics answers too.) The sepulcher is far enough away that you can't really make use of it and don't want someone else getting it. You'll just have to hope your demonic friend doesn't accidentally get ganked. The Pyre is a tougher question, and almost certainly shouldn't be done until you have a better military, preferably to cover every space around it, if you're going to do it.

The one thing I have to add is that I know greater dungeons are definitely 3-turn opens now. I remember sitting a scout on Bradeline's Well for a good 15 turns trying to get a good result in one of my SP games.

[Molach]

Hopefully I get to play tomorrow evening/night. Turns have been coming too late for me (and serdoa who should be same timezone) to play. I'll be somewhat irritated if serdoa never gets his turn thursday so we wait till sunday. Maybe later we can use pauses for planning or diplo, but for now it's pretty easy stuff to play.

Anyway, did a little WB test. Confirmed that Pyre & Broken are 3-turn openers (well of course they were, but wanted to see results from monarch pops), so my scout has plenty of time to clear the area. In my (monarch) game, my level 1 scout got an adventurer, and then a GM from 2 out of 2 tries on these features. Nice. Also, even if it says 'route needed' now, I will not get mana unless I own knowledge of the ether. (Which means I can't trade it away for something useful unless I have that). And Ichabod was right about clearing lair/arcane tech. Of course. If I ever get KotE it might pay off to grab elementalism for springing away my desert tiles, if nothing else. Still think BW is better for clearing my jungle away than fire, though. Heh. Elves would likely have used the KotE - flame way.

By the way, demons will do what they were probably placed on the map to do. And now I'll expect either a GP or adventurer. Both will be useful. Any other result and I shall demote one random minister to ministry of sanitation for 10 turns. And pre-sanitation tech, this is not one of the regular cushy minister posts...

Hm. What sort of nastiness can I expect? Apart from monster spawn? What about a level 3 scout, popping a feature with allied units around so no monsters can spawn? Guaranteed niceness? Probably some thread dealing with this somewhere.

()

[DaveV]

Probably some thread dealing with this somewhere.

Of course there is!

[Ranamar]

One worry about GP or Adventurer... If the tile is on fire, does it kill someone who spawns there? GPs (and such) spawn on the tile of the lair.

[Molach]

@Ranamar
After quick testing the sepulcher will yield normal results, regardless of tile being on tile.
First try I got Azers, was a bit nervous about that as I thought only fireproof creatures could spawn....but then I got scorpion and lions...and some other creatures. Then I got adventurer, appeared on same tile. He could leave tile, but not come back. No damage.

@Dave
Thanks for that link, just what I needed. I would have thought lair pops were better on lower difficulties, but guess not. The gist of it is that epic lairs gives bad monster pop about 53% of the time, and something good 47%. Difficulty has no impact. Each level of opening 'volunteer' bumps the odds 1% towards good stuff. And lair will never be destroyed by monster pop, but always when I get something good. So if I surround the pyre near my capital with units I WILL get one good result then it will fade. I think this is worth doing in a reasonable time. Can somerthing good.

So I'll expect a monster pop. Capital has time to finish settler, then build some more warriors so I shouldn't be eliminated. Just yet. And the demons can probably take care of first monster attacking it, 6 defense and 3-4 first strikes

------------

Report - turn 22.

In the Northwest, demons did not say much. They shuffled towards the broken structure in the distance, as if drawn in by invisible chains. One by one they disappeared into the blackness.



Head ranger Adon shook his head. "Nothing good will come from this. We must move out. Now our 'leader' must get on it, and decide where to go. We have a goblin lair northwards, graveyard even further north. And even further north, the world being round and all, we might find a way back home. Or we could head back and scout golden hills NE of capital"

Hill 174. Nightfall. Captain Taarj adresses his men.
We've been ignored. Ridiculed. Awared the 'order of Maginot' so the higher-ups could ease their conscience about leaving us out here without support. With sticks and stones for defense. Leaving us to die. And we will die. But not today. We are facing horrible, flying, lion-headed monsters but this is not the day we die. We fortunate few, we band of brothers. We stand alone! Curr....

The griffons' talon exploding through his chest signalled the start of the battle.



Fortunately, this was not the day the (all) died.

Demons:

Sorry, meant demos.

[Ichabod]

I think the chances of a bad lair result that can enter city borders + will beeline to your city are pretty slim. The worst possible thing is mistforms and you won't even know they were popped until they eat you worler or something.

Besides, most of the results won't be able to attack your demon guys, since they won't be able to enter the fire.

Hopefully we get a good result and all this talk is moot.

[DaveV]

So if I surround the pyre near my capital with units I WILL get one good result then it will fade.

No, you can still get bad results, including monster spawns, even if the lair is surrounded. If the result calls for a monster spawn and it can't be placed on the map, everything else proceeds as normal (i.e. epic lair is not destroyed, and you have to spend another 3 turns exploring). You'll still get a message for the blocked monster spawn, but no monsters will appear.