(March 28th, 2013, 13:11)Qgqqqqq Wrote: What's the other hill giant doing?
He just randomly spawned?
No, he's also mapmaker placed, but with fewer promotions. If/when we get around to settling the area, we'll need either hunters or adepts to clear out the giants, I think.
Quote:So map wise, it looks like a vague donut shape for areas with hum in the middle?
Sorta, but I think it's really too early to make any assumptions.
Quote:What are your traits again?
At the moment, Creative/Charismatic/Arcane
Quote:I get the feeling the feeling that animal husbandry isn't particularly necessary (unless there's AH food at the next city sites? Sorry its been a while) as you can mine the sheep for 5 yield as comparedto pasturing it for 5 yield.
Besides your at the happy cap, and slaverys a while a way(?).
Slavery is now at Philosophy. Which isn't really that far down the tree - but the only other benefit of the tech per se is Bone Palace, and you see how far away marble is. So it'll pretty much be there whenever we want it.
Not actually at the happy cap, I just didn't see a purpose to growing to size 6 without an improved tile to work. And both silks and gems will add one.
Quote:I think myst -> festivals would probably be most useful if we're trying to REX atm - with a cap of 8/7 there's no need to open up much more tiles, especially if workers are falling behind.
Eh? Markets and Elder Councils might help pay for cities, but hammers into them instead of into settlers doesn't seem like the best choice, at least while we're not Financial/Philo.
Although come to think, Mysticism would let us turn the supplies into a Pagan Temple, and we're in Religion, so that would be worth +1 happy.
But it's true, the sheep is the only tile in the next few cities to benefit, and we could mine it, yes, so AH now is a silly idea.
Other options: we could pick up Education - cottages are always worth having. The XP-civics could be handy too.
We could pick up Bronze Working - copper warriors are still the most efficient anti-barb force there is, and we've close jungle too. We could go Mysticism -> Knowledge of the Ether, and start getting some adepts on the board.
Longer term, we could aim to bulb Sanitation by way of the Drama Bard
I think I'm leaning for Hunting, actually. We have furs in culture already, we have Deer in the third city's BFC, and we know of elephants near by. But you're probably right that Festivals is quite urgent too, particularly if we lose Creative. And we want all the techs behind Ancient Chants and Mysticism, so those beakers would be worthwhile regardless.
Hunting, then Ancient Chants, then pick one of Mysticism/Festivals/Education.
Still have time to think about it, and for our traits to choose to flip to make one or another of those more profitable.
Anyway, we've a new turn. First thing is...Mardoc, when are you going to learn not to complain about boredom when you're ahead?
Probably the Spectre will suicide on the hill warrior. We should have excellent odds. But sometimes the AI does odd things, and it might end up slowing the settler a turn if it camps on one of the improved tiles.
Also, it means the worker is putting a road on the hill eventually to be mined for Ringmaster, 3W of the silk, instead of on the forest to be farmed for the new city 1S of the silk. Would prefer the forest, but the only cover we could have gotten is the city garrison, and that would be a risk higher than I'm willing to run at this stage of the game.
In other news, demos are the same as last turn - you can see that our leads aren't quite as massive anymore. In fact, if Rival Best is the same in all three categories, you could even say we've been caught (remember, we have 8 GNP of mostly useless culture). Good thing we're 2 turns away from a settler and a new worker tech, isn't it?
Also, one more turn with Cre . We're not yet to the critical three turns of Trapeze popping its borders onto the Oasis and gems, but that'll be soon enough. Our odds of keeping Cre long enough keep going up every turn they fail to swap.
(March 30th, 2013, 14:54)Qgqqqqq Wrote: I meant myst for God-King, and festivals for back up culture.
Ah, makes more sense. Need to decide if GodKing is worth a turn - I grant that post-Mining it's likely to be worth using. It probably is worth the turn, given that swapping back out via Golden Age should be feasible, and it'll be worth between 4 and 6 hpt, plus a minor gold boost.
Quote:Who has 12 production at this stage??
The only guess I have is that it's HK, building a settler or granary and getting the +100% counted in demos. Maybe perhaps it could be Ellimist, if he ignored Calendar and went straight for Mining - three mines and capital and a couple forests could possibly manage it, and River of Blood could have let him skip Calendar. Although I still don't think he's got enough beakers to have managed that already, maybe an event or lair helped him out. Can't see any other way.
That said, we're not far from having three mines, the Palace, and city center for 12 hpt ourselves - could manage that in less than 10 turns, most likely. Hopefully we keep the food lead when we get there
(March 30th, 2013, 14:56)Qgqqqqq Wrote: Are you planning on maxing out to the happy cap, as hunting would put that at nearly 10, and I'm not sure there'll be enough improved tiles.
You do know the right questions to ask! I was, without thinking too hard about it, until you mentioned this, and I counted - until either Education or Fishing is in, we can't have enough improved tiles, no matter how many workers I devote to the task (or until we have, say, an Elder Council and a Market and some specialists collecting GPP for us - I did just say that those are bad deals, but I'm suddenly not so sure). So therefore Hunting should wait until we can use the happy and/or the Deer, at minimum. Preferably until we can use both.
So...therefore I think it'll be Ancient Chants next, en route to probably Mysticism. I'm still debating Mysticism vs Education vs Festivals vs Hunting after that, but you're right to suggest Animal Husbandry and Hunting can both wait. And therefore should wait. Next turn we'll start AC, as we've had a couple come by.
News from those turns:
The Spectre is being extremely annoying. It's not suicided, just paused, then parked itself on a forest tile. Hopefully it'll die soon, but it hasn't yet.
Dungeon result was one of the non-victorious options - our super scout is now Crazed (the random chance of Enraged, which is AI control and aggressive one). So he's now definitely going to die at some point. I guess that means the right goal is to explore another lair while we've still got him!
Settler is done! Next turn he moves, turn after that we found the city - think it'll be Trapeze. Assuming the Spectre doesn't block the road, that is.
Mining's in - we have bronze , but not in the BFC - over by the furs. Post Bronzeworking, when we can chop the jungle from that area, there's a very nice city to be had. That's definitely the direction of the next scout, since we can now pick up Bronze at our leisure.
Workers both happen to be on hills, outside the Spectre's reach, and the tile I wanted to farm for the new city is inside its reach. So...we'll be mining these hills immediately while waiting on the Spectre to clear itself out of the way. That's a reason to grow, so we can work six improved tiles (Rice, 2 grass farms, banana, 2 mines (one with sheep on it). Should be able to grow in 2, and get the mines done with three turns of work, so T39 we'll be size 6 on 6 improved tiles, plus have Trapeze built but working no improved tiles.
Borders popped again. Nothing much newsworthy, but at least we legitimately see more of the tiles we actually see, now.
Next goals are growing Trapeze onto improved tiles, and getting the third city down (with garrison, road to rest of empire, and immediate worker support, of course).
I think that means Ringmaster will knock out another warrior next, followed by a third worker. After that...either one more warrior and settler, or just straight to the settler, I think. Or maybe a fourth worker, depending on if barbs keep slowing me down. Certainly nothing but workers, settlers, and warriors for the moment, though .
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
No, I hadn't. But there will definitely be a High Wire city in my empire
I'll aim for a big update with pictures and everything sometime this weekend...after I get a first draft of the 27 map done and posted for comment. Would really be happy if you and Q would stop by once I do that...it might inspire me to greater detail over here...
Short version: new city founded, mines built, security is good, demos are still looking good but different - still big food lead, dramatic rise in MFG, someone has caught us in GNP but that should change as soon as I get the silk and gems online. And anyway I think at this stage of the game food and hammers are more important.
Met HK this turn - found his borders with my Crazed, Diseased, wounded scout (the dungeons have not be kind to him...but at least they won't be available for HK later on). Haven't said hi yet, but I will soon.
Ancient Chants is in; I'm still debating but I'll probably follow Q's recommendation for Mysticism. We've started paying maintenance for units, which means I want to get the Supplies settled, I want something else to dump hammers into besides warriors, and honestly the next city and possibly the next couple don't need any worker techs beyond what we currently have. Those are all good Mysticism reasons. So is the fact that the capital will soon have 12 base hammers/turn . Education is a fairly high priority, as well, mostly so that I can use my full happy cap everywhere, but Myst first makes sense to me.
In other news, worker 3 is due next turn, and I'm convinced the right move is to immediately go for worker 4. The Oasis has meant that Trapeze has only had a couple turns working suboptimal tiles, but I not only want to catch it up, I want to get a third city ready and founded ASAP, and I want to grow the capital somewhat as I get the various happy sources online. City 3, the one in the north is another that would really benefit from Creative, and requires no further tech to be a strong site. (except maybe Festivals if Cre leaves us). At the moment I have Trapeze working on Loki; I don't want more warriors for the moment (we're at five), and I'm hoping to not work on granaries until I'm Expansive.
Priority is still REX. As soon as it seems that the worker supply is adequate, Ringmaster is going back on settler production.
Anything else newsworthy? Probably...but I've only gotten one comment on the map for 27 Merovech, I've great respect for your mapmaking abilities on what I see so far .
(April 9th, 2013, 09:13)Mardoc Wrote: Anything else newsworthy? Probably...but I've only gotten one comment on the map for 27 Merovech, I've great respect for your mapmaking abilities on what I see so far .
You have no idea how happy that just made me. I've been a little busy, but I will look at the screenshots now and hopefully the save later tonight.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
![[Image: PBEM25%20T35%20Spectre.JPG]](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/16549110/PBEM25%20T35%20Spectre.JPG)
![[Image: PBEM25%20T35%20Demos.JPG]](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/16549110/PBEM25%20T35%20Demos.JPG)
. We're not yet to the critical three turns of Trapeze popping its borders onto the Oasis and gems, but that'll be soon enough. Our odds of keeping Cre long enough keep going up every turn they fail to swap.
, but not in the BFC - over by the furs. Post Bronzeworking, when we can chop the jungle from that area, there's a very nice city to be had. That's definitely the direction of the next scout, since we can now pick up Bronze at our leisure.
Merovech, I've great respect for your mapmaking abilities on what I see so far 
I've been a little busy, but I will look at the screenshots now and hopefully the save later tonight.
![[Image: Illiansgone.jpg]](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/84822082/FFH25/Illiansgone.jpg)