WW22 - Diaries of the Madmen

[zakalwe]

Wild accusations again Zak. Why don't you just reveal your role ? You've been dodging it pretty hard. I am not taking my vote of you.

What do you mean? I have revealed everything long ago. What am I dodging?

And it's not a wild accusation. It's logical. Why don't you sit down for a minute and think about it, instead of just dismissing it. Give me a reason why it isn't so.

[uberfish]

Uberfish feels vaguely scummy, but less so then the rest, and I like/agree with most of what he's said in thread

... so why am I vaguely scummy then?

[Qgqqqqq]

The feel of your posts and the way you've reacted to the actions taken, like your persisting reference to no. of wolves, and the lack of reaction to much of what goes on
Just generally you feel like azza often feels as scum, lurking but making sure you're sen and taking part in easy tells/reactions.

[Qgqqqqq]

Some got lost there (???)
...reaction to much that goes on, like discussing the kills and sharing your own views on people.
Just....

[uberfish]

Well, I freely admit I've been pretty lazy this game. That's partly because of the chess tournament occupying most of my "thinking about game" time and partly because, apart from day 2, our lynches have seemed clearcut with little movement during the day.

What I don't like here is how you like what I actually posted on one hand but then reframe it as "easy tells/reactions."

[Qgqqqqq]

I do like what you're saying (like in the response to Ryan, policy lynching, and your reveal/lack thereof yesterday), the problem is it often feels like you're avoiding the confrontations/engaging with the issues of the thread.

[Jkaen]

Wild accusations again Zak. Why don't you just reveal your role ? You've been dodging it pretty hard. I am not taking my vote of you.

What do you mean? I have revealed everything long ago. What am I dodging?

And it's not a wild accusation. It's logical. Why don't you sit down for a minute and think about it, instead of just dismissing it. Give me a reason why it isn't so.

You mean get somebody else to argue your case for you?

[Jkaen]

Zak why target Q with your role blocking, you made no mention of finding him suspicious before

[uberfish]

I do like what you're saying (like in the response to Ryan, policy lynching, and your reveal/lack thereof yesterday), the problem is it often feels like you're avoiding the confrontations/engaging with the issues of the thread.

Well I'd say that the number of wolves argument and how it's been used has actually been one of the main issues in the thread. And if I agree with a lynch target, I don't feel the need to rehash what other players have already said or start moves just for the sake of "activity". See my play on day 1 of the Brick item game.

[zakalwe]

Jkaen - I am well aware that nobody else will argue my case for me. I've been jotting it down now, in between other distractions; sorry in advance for a somewhat rambling post. Hopefully I'll get my points across, though.

Ryan - you should read this post, and at least consider it. If you don't, we lose.

So, Jkaen really had a pretty scummy day 1, especially by day 1 standards. He started off with justifying his vote on Lewwyn while calling it random, and got called out for it. He attacked Azza for his self-vote, in essence choosing to support one policy lynch (Azza) but not another (Q). He defended Mattimeo in post 78, before the heat was truly on:

Zak why with limited mislynches do you want to start chasing after people who defend themselves adly, surely that is a point against going after him.

And what information do you see a mattimeo lynch giving, that Novice was telling the truth about his role, which is probably a taken. cant see anything beyond that

"Surely we should save all weak players for last?" What kind of argument is that? Then, when Mattimeo was going down, Jkaen allowed himself to be persuaded to join, after all. But Mattimeo curiously insisted that Novice was the right lynch target, even if he had a clear opening to back down and join the wagon on Jkaen instead.

So on night 1, Lewwyn was extremely suspicious of Jkaen. I was suspicious of him, and Gazglum literally promised to lynch him. We were/are all innocent, so it should be clear to scum that Jkaen is going down as a sack of potatoes. But they really can't afford that, so he needs a strong claim. They decide on tracker, and probably plan on "tracking" Azza or something, saying he went nowhere. And then they kill off Lewwyn to staunch the bleeding. They block Gazglum, in case he's a seer or role seer and is about to investigate Jkaen. Simple, straightforward play, and if anyone questions Lewwyn's death they will just call it a frame job and WIFOM. (Which is exactly what happened.) If Jkaen can just keep his head above water for another day or two, he can suicide into someone else with a fake tracking result, putting them close to victory.

Then, in the morning, it turns out that Lewwyn visited Novice. Jkaen still pops his tracker claim, as planned, but quickly adapts it to track Lewwyn to Novice, for added credibility. (Or maybe it was all improvised there and then, but I think that's less likely.) And thanks to Azza getting the short end of the meta stick, Jkaen does indeed make it through the day. Suspicions against Jkaen start to fade, because people have short memories.

Then, on night 2, Azza is dead, and they need to decide on another fake tracking action. They decide to gamble on me having a passive role, and claiming "no result" on me, hoping to gain credibility if it turns out I went nowhere. And if I did go somewhere, just claim that Jkaen was blocked. The other scum is a roleblocker, so this claim will gain credence if that scum is caught. Look again at the way Jkaen phrased his result:

Well looks like tasunke was our role seer.

I tracked Zak lt night as somebody suspicious to me, and since nobody had suggested who to follow. I got 'no result'

I assume that means he didn't follow anybody rather than my power got blocked

I didn't like the way it was phrased then, and I still don't like it. He assumes the result means I didn't go anywhere. So if I didn't, he totally called it! Yet, there's an out, in that maybe he got blocked.

So on day 3, Jkaen gets lucky again, with Gazglum plain forgetting about how his own role works, and getting called out by Novice. That brings us to day 4, and LyLo, and Ryan, who is likely innocent, at my throat. Game over.

So who is the other scum? I don't know, but I think it's most likely Q. So Jkaen performed the kill last night, and my night action should have been the same as last night. Or maybe I was blocked, anyway. There's actually quite a lot of defending going on between Jkaen and Q, in both directions. Q's miller claim makes little sense if there's no seer. And I don't think we have a tracker, either. Q showed up right after the deadline on day 2, and was in a position to jump on Jkaen for credibility if he needed to. As it was, Gazglum landed on Azza half an hour before deadline, and Q could stay quiet.

Uberfish is possible, too. If so, he's played a more conventional scum game, avoiding fancy play, like they usually do. He got "trapped" on Mattimeo on day 1 and couldn't move off. Instead, he stayed quiet and only chimed in after it was all decided, anyway. Since then, he's basically just coasted on his day 1 towncred, making minimal contributions. On day 2, Uber first hits Jkaen hard, summarizing the case as if he's trying to claim credit for it. But later he finds a reason to move his vote to Gazglum, and leaves it there.

I found this interesting.

unofficial vote count

Azza (4) - Zak Q Gaz Jkaen
Gazglum (3) - Tas Nov Uber
Jkaen (1) - Azz

No vote - Ryan

And looking at that count, my two main suspects (Gazglum and Jkaen) are trying to lynch Azza, together with Zak who's been fence sitting for most of the day. That wagon stinks.

When it looks like the wagon on Jkaen is dead, he gets in a jab at me, Q, and Gaz, while throwing in some more distancing against Jkaen. "That wagon stinks" is a nice and easy way to throw some dirt around. Yet when the vote swings back to Jkaen, Uberfish is absent, and Azza ends up hanging instead of his "main suspect", Jkaen.