Heh, reason I don;t play duo que is because of that exact thing. Regardless I'll even show you a little bit of evidence (the mmr values I got from lolking.com) Recent Shen game enemy mmr 1605 my team, 1565 Game beforehand mmr of enemy team 1557 my team's mmr 1494. I don't have time to do more calculations, but here is the link . The promotion games were both shen games, zyra, fizz, caitlyn, and leona.
Also how do I attach LOL replay files to this, because it keeps on saying that, that type of file you have attached is not allowed
(April 25th, 2013, 16:06)BaII Wrote: Regardless I'll even show you a little bit of evidence (the mmr values I got from lolking.com) Recent Shen game enemy mmr 1605 my team, 1565 Game beforehand mmr of enemy team 1557 my team's mmr 1494. I don't have time to do more calculations, but here is the link .
Lolking score is not matchmaking rating. MMR is not publicly available. From what I have gathered, Lolking derives LKS from your league standings. Basically they infer that, e.g., Silver I is 1400-1500 Elo, so if you are in Silver I you will always have a LKS between 1400 and 1500, with the exact number determined by your League Points and maybe some internal seasoning. That's a good approximation, under the assumption that you are in your correct league. But especially around the tier boundaries, it becomes a bit fuzzy: Your MMR might already be gold rated, but because you did not win your promotion series, your LKS is still hard capped at 1500. Conversely, the enemy team in that Shen game had a bunch of low Gold players. Maybe their LKS is bounded from below by 1500, but their MMR is below 1500, because they can not drop below Gold V (yes I realize they are not Gold V 0 League Points, but the point stands).
Riot have said time and again that matchmaking is determined by MMR only and has no connection whatsoever to your League standings. And for all I know, MMR works just like the old Elo, except you can not see it anymore. I see no reason to not believe them.
Moreover, your Shen game had a Plat V player on your team, so I assume there must have been some duo queuing going on. That always messes up matchmaking a bit. Also purple team is a bit stronger rated than blue team most of the time. But if you consistently see players on the enemy team being in a higher tier than you, it's safe to assume the system actually wants you to promote. You were just unlucky.
BaII Wrote: Heh, reason I don;t play duo que is because of that exact thing.
The idea is that the penalty is canceled out by the innate advantages you have when duo queuing (read: voice chat). Also duo queuing removes some randomness from the game, because you know beforehand that you have a reliable partner in your team. Generally, it's still considered an advantage to be a duo team in a ranked game, I think.
(April 25th, 2013, 14:21)BaII Wrote: I know this sounds like an elo hell rant thread and but I have legitmate proof that the average MMR of you opponents is higher than the average MMR of your teammates. I have taken I a look in my promotion match series. From what it looked like the average MMR is higher on the other team.
Um... if that were correct, that would mean that for the other team, the average MMR of their teammates was higher than the average MMR of the opponents, wouldn't it? Your thesis has a symmetry problem.
A major flaw in most Elo hell arguments -- even in Bronze V, someone wins every game.
(April 26th, 2013, 06:05)abuzeus Wrote: Lolking score is not matchmaking rating. MMR is not publicly available. From what I have gathered, Lolking derives LKS from your league standings. Basically they infer that, e.g., Silver I is 1400-1500 Elo, so if you are in Silver I you will always have a LKS between 1400 and 1500, with the exact number determined by your League Points and maybe some internal seasoning. That's a good approximation, under the assumption that you are in your correct league. But especially around the tier boundaries, it becomes a bit fuzzy: Your MMR might already be gold rated, but because you did not win your promotion series, your LKS is still hard capped at 1500. Conversely, the enemy team in that Shen game had a bunch of low Gold players. Maybe their LKS is bounded from below by 1500, but their MMR is below 1500, because they can not drop below Gold V (yes I realize they are not Gold V 0 League Points, but the point stands).
Riot have said time and again that matchmaking is determined by MMR only and has no connection whatsoever to your League standings. And for all I know, MMR works just like the old Elo, except you can not see it anymore. I see no reason to not believe them.
Moreover, your Shen game had a Plat V player on your team, so I assume there must have been some duo queuing going on. That always messes up matchmaking a bit. Also purple team is a bit stronger rated than blue team most of the time. But if you consistently see players on the enemy team being in a higher tier than you, it's safe to assume the system actually wants you to promote. You were just unlucky.
BaII Wrote: Heh, reason I don;t play duo que is because of that exact thing.
The idea is that the penalty is canceled out by the innate advantages you have when duo queuing (read: voice chat). Also duo queuing removes some randomness from the game, because you know beforehand that you have a reliable partner in your team. Generally, it's still considered an advantage to be a duo team in a ranked game, I think.
If that is how lolking gets it's MMR, then there is no way to prove either my argument or Sullla's argument. Still a frustrating system though, not even being able to rank myself against other players.
Generally I find duo que more frustrating, as generally your teammates and yourself will be under performing. Although communications should be able to close the gap, its not as fun if you are under performing.
No, Sullla's argument is statically valid and yours, on a general scale, is not. However, the possibility that you have hit an unlikely run where you are matched up against higher players is valid, but only as a function of the inherent variance in the system.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
Well, you could theoretically be the victim of some malicious intentional matchmaking, but you could also theoretically have every single sub-atomic particle in your body spontantouesly move a foot to the left. That doesn't mean it is true.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
So I FINALLY hit gold! After two horribly frustrating 0-3 promotion series, I carried game 5 of the third one with a virtuoso 3/0/20 Janna performance. Learning to play support has been a big advantage in getting to gold; a good support player really makes a huge difference in the bottom lane and in teamfights.
Regardless I'll even show you a little bit of evidence (the mmr values I got from lolking.com) Recent Shen game enemy mmr 1605 my team, 1565 Game beforehand mmr of enemy team 1557 my team's mmr 1494. I don't have time to do more calculations, but here is the link . The promotion games were both shen games, zyra, fizz, caitlyn, and leona.
