The Dark arts - C&D Master Thread

[Qgqqqqq]

Hammers in a city are really easy to calculate.
If we are willing to say 6 pop whip the cap (as an emergency if it looks like they can beat us), what turn can we finish on?

[kjn]

Just logged in. CFC planted a city earlier this turn, and marble shows up in the Foreign Advisor - Resources screen. I'm going through the build tracking numbers right now (on Germany currently, should finish shortly).

Anyway, here are the hammer sources for CFC's capital:

Tile	Hammers
PH city tile	2
2 plains hills	8
1 grass hill	3
6 plains	6
Sum	19

Adventure One gets 21H in base production, so we have an advantage of 4Hpt once bureaucracy and OR bonus is factored in, 7H with the marble. We also start with 85H (raw) in overflow, and I don't think all the plains tiles around Indira has been improved yet.

Anyway, we should know more next turn. But I see no city of theirs that can get more production than Indira in bureaucracy mode. Lakshmi has several hills and two forests, but is rather small (size 8), Bono has four forests but is very small (size 4).

With their new city CFC is the new rival best in population on F8, ie I think I can confirm that Univers has 98 pop.

[kjn]

CFC hammer tracking, T131 edition:

City	T131	T130
Indira	87	38
Terasvin	29	0
Mantra	13	0
Daivagati	0	0
Lana	27	19
Astan	19	0
Bono	6	0
Stupid city	0	0
Abhi	173	59
Hansa	0	40 (post-whip)

Most of the cities with 0 hammers on T130 has been at 0 in the build box for most turns since T122. I guess the build in Abhi is Moai statues - the city has 8 coastal tiles (though none of them with seafood resources).

[Gold Ergo Sum]

I think we need to seriously consider a T136 whip if possible if it looks like they can whip on T137.

[kalin]

I am also thinking that directly whipping the wonder should be on the table even to avoid a coin toss. That is I agree with GES that we should whip on T136 if they can on T137.

Kalin

[Lewwyn]

Any chance on an updated tech/pop growth graph? I just want to revel in obscene Civving.

[kjn]

Celiazul has posted a new one in the turn discussion thread, but it's incomplete and misses some score that I have yet to assign.

Anyway, here are the tiles for Indira:

Farm (corn) 1
Plantation (banana) 1
FP Town 4
Grass village 3
Grass hamlet 1
Plains village 2
Plains cottage 2
Plains (unimproved) 2
Grass mine 1
Plains mine 2
Lake 1

One of the unimproved plains has a unit on it, and might be in the process of improvement.

Anyway, I think CFC assumed they could get Taj Mahal with a dedicated Nationalism beeline and access to marble, but perhaps underestimated the way we would push for Liberalism, and securing marble from the Germans, of all teams. They don't seem to have a city set up for oodles of overflow.

[darrelljs]

So they have more pop to whip the Taj with, third ring forests, similar hammers/turn, access to marble, and the same civic bonuses. It is unknown whether they have whip cascade hammers, but even if they don't I suspect we'll have to whip the wonder.

Darrell

[kalin]

So they have more pop to whip the Taj with, third ring forests, similar hammers/turn, access to marble, and the same civic bonuses. It is unknown whether they have whip cascade hammers, but even if they don't I suspect we'll have to whip the wonder.

That is my expectation too. Hopefully we can whip "just" 4-pop. I wonder what would be better if we had a choice: chop the deer forest or do a 6-pop whip instead of 4?

Kalin

[Fintourist]

But they don't seem to have overflow tricks!