WW23: The Heart of Gold

[Serdoa]

Thanks for the game, I thought I would live longer

[zakalwe]

I am once again beaming with excitement to see such a sad development.

Setup process
The game setup was created like this:
1. I picked out the characters that I wanted to be part of the game and wrote the flavour part of their role pms, and tentative abilities.
2. I randomly rolled the character alignments.
3. I adjusted the characters abilities in order to create a balanced setup.
4. I randomly assigned players to characters.

Did you read this, Uberfish? What's the big deal with claiming character names? And why did you single out Lewwyn for doing it? He's not the only one who has been dropping hints about his identity. Considering the above, there seems to be little need for scum to "set up a claim".

Uberfish

[uberfish]

Hey zak - you should very well know that my reaction to unfounded accusations against myself is contempt/dismissal/outright ignoring them unless I think I might be mislynched. PB hasn't been an active werewolf player so I can see him coming from a perspective where he has no idea what on earth a scum tell from me would be (hint: read the last 2-3 games), but you? You should know my meta better than this. I poke people on day 1 a lot. If the response isn't suspicious I don't follow up - Why would I?

And what are you trying to imply about my vote on Gaspar and subsequent move? Saying that my vote stands certainly doesn't imply it's locked in for the rest of the day. The move isn't suspicious unless you're saying that I am scum with Gaspar (but you know, if I was scum with Gaspar he'd tell me just to bus the hell out of him from day 1 so he didn't have to keep playing as scum, so why would I move?)

But well, I don't think Zak is scum with Gaspar either due to that awkward "compromise non-Ryan lynch" interaction. It just feels like too public an interaction for a scumpair to do.

so Lewwyn, who I mainly suspect from his stance on Ryan. He starts off by taking a position of "oh no the dumb village is going to lynch Ryan", but when ryan posts (badly) and village does make a move to lynch him Lewwyn doesn't even bother to comment (implying that he doesn't actually care about Ryan being lynched.)

fake edit: No, I didn't bother reading novice's rules post, and if you'd bothered to read my 2nd night post you'd notice I had already retracted that particular point against Lewwyn because I realised the "dropping identity at night" tell was incorrect on 2nd reading.

[uberfish]

Zak are you post restricted?

[Gaspar]

Serdoa is a real surprise, he played a very passive day one by his standards. GG Serdoa.

I think pretty much that one of Lewwyn, Uberfish, Zakalwe has to be scum, and only one of them. Their interactions really don't strike me as scumbuddy-ish but I could by anyone of them as the alpha scum. I'm less inclined on Zak because I'm alive - I think I've been on him everytime he's been scum and I think he would night kill me even with my suspicion. Village Zak would think I'm scum because he always thinks I'm scum and try and lynch me (which he's already hinting towards.) And if not me, scum Zak would kill uber unless they're scum buddies. Serdoa just doesn't strike me as Zak's style. I'm not clearing him by any means, but I give him a slight town lean for that.

Lewwyn I am notoriously bad at reading in that I generally give him too much credit and hence whenever he plays I usually think he's scum for at least some part of the game. The Serdoa night kill fits him though. I also think he's spewing a lot of I'm smarter than you bullshit, which usually comes later in the game for him.

Uberfish though is the mostly likely of the three. I've sensed an underlying frustration from him all game that really doesn't have any good reason. From my experience, votes don't really bother him when he's a villager. If he gets annoyed as a villager its usually either because of a particular stupid town lynch (which isn't the case here since he was part of the lynch) or because of the quantity of posts (also not an issue here.) I have seen him get perturbed by votes as scum though - usually goes like this: He thinks he's playing a good game - how can they be voting me? I recognize this because it tends to be my M.O. as well. The Ryan lynch doesn't bother because of the lynch - it bothers me because of how easily he went along with it. I expect more investigation from uber, he was way too happy to have the day end once Ryan put his foot in his mouth. Village Uber I think keeps the pressure on. Scum Uber is worried if he gets people talking they start talking about him more.

[Lewwyn]

so Lewwyn, who I mainly suspect from his stance on Ryan. He starts off by taking a position of "oh no the dumb village is going to lynch Ryan", but when ryan posts (badly) and village does make a move to lynch him Lewwyn doesn't even bother to comment (implying that he doesn't actually care about Ryan being lynched.)

Actually following Ryan's post I quote Gaspar who says that it is lame, and I agree with him. But I went after Gaspar instead of outright defending Ryan because that seemed the best way to save him. Find scum and convince others someone other than Ryan was a better target. If you simply tell people not to lynch Ryan, they'll just say lynch who? Lynch you. Humans are sheep following others in the dark we call life.

Gaspar though seems more innocent than anticipated. A stroke of luck dashed by the realization the village will still fail. But I will help real in the Uberfish I don't want him to break the line and swim away, but he probably will.

[Bigger]

I still would like to hear pocketbeetle's explanation of his uber vote. the rest have at least explained their vote, even if I don't agree with it. In fact, i would like to see pocketbeetle explain ANY vote, he just seems to be dancing around, more interested in role-playing the bureaucrat than trying to catch scum. I don't believe he's even stated an opinion about anyone, other than role-playing, the entire game.

[zakalwe]

Hey zak - you should very well know that my reaction to unfounded accusations against myself is contempt/dismissal/outright ignoring them unless I think I might be mislynched. PB hasn't been an active werewolf player so I can see him coming from a perspective where he has no idea what on earth a scum tell from me would be (hint: read the last 2-3 games), but you? You should know my meta better than this. I poke people on day 1 a lot. If the response isn't suspicious I don't follow up - Why would I?

Ryan had 4 votes, you had 3. If he had showed up to vote defensively, you could have been lynched. (Not sure I think that's all that relevant, but since you brought it up...) And sure, you could poke people as a villager too. But when I look at your pokes they don't seem all that "constructive" to me. You asked Mattimeo why he even bothered to sign up, which was a bit passive-aggressive IMO. Just taking a step towards establishing that he's a worthy policy lynch without really getting your hands dirty. (Or maybe it was distancing?) Then there's that poke at Bigger that I already rewarded with a scum point, which just seemed more like splitting hairs than actually pouncing on suspicious behavior. It's not like I expect to see a huge difference on the surface between your scum and village play on day 1, but I try to reconstruct your underlying reasoning to see if it makes sense.

And what are you trying to imply about my vote on Gaspar and subsequent move? Saying that my vote stands certainly doesn't imply it's locked in for the rest of the day. The move isn't suspicious unless you're saying that I am scum with Gaspar (but you know, if I was scum with Gaspar he'd tell me just to bus the hell out of him from day 1 so he didn't have to keep playing as scum, so why would I move?)

I wasn't so much implying it as stating it outright, wasn't I? No matter what Gaspar wants to claim - in practically every single game that he's been scum, he's been heavily into day 1 distancing. You even agree with this, it seems. And like I say - the circumstances were ideal here for getting in some easy distancing. Our only point of contention seems to be if you would go through with such a bussing regardless of circumstances, even if someone else virtually insisted on taking his place.

fake edit: No, I didn't bother reading novice's rules post, and if you'd bothered to read my 2nd night post you'd notice I had already retracted that particular point against Lewwyn because I realised the "dropping identity at night" tell was incorrect on 2nd reading.

Ok, fair enough, you retracted that part. Still, your "setting up a claim" tell wouldn't make much sense either way, considering no-one has any reason to claim anything other than their real character. If you want to get into a pissing contest about who's bothered to read the thread the most carefully, I could also point out that I addressed Lewwyn as Marvin as early as post #18. Looks like nobody even noticed... or they are playing dumb.

Zak are you post restricted?

It brings me the utmost delight to report that I am! Though I prefer to think of it not so much as a restriction, as an opportunity to contribute with a unique outlook on the world. I am Colin, the security robot, and I like to think that it's my happy thoughts that allow me to fly! In fact, I positively relish the thought, although I know that the real reason is that my pleasure circuits were rewired by Ford Prefect. On the other hand, that ruthless violation of my personal integrity also fills me with joy whenever I stop to contemplate it.

[OOC: I have to say something cheerful or enthusiastic in every post. I suspect Lewwyn has something similar.]

[Mattimeo]

Uberfish seems slightly more snarky than usual, but given that includes the pervious game, where he was scum, I'm not sure much can be drawn from that...
One thing that doesn't seem to fit very well is killing someone who was at worst neutral towards him, and even agreeing on some points, over one of those attacking him (and looking set to continue that into a new day).

Really don't like Gaspar's post today. After having someone suggest a vote for him yesterday, he's spent the night coming up with a reason to continue on that track, as support had been advertised for that wagon by the closing stages of yesterday's action. There's the fingering of the three other 'strong' players: one written of as "I'd be dead if he were scum", terrible reasoning at the best of times; one posited as a plausible source of the night kill (this I can actually agree with) but ultimately passed over for the third; and the target there was a wagon on yesterday, with the reasoning "well, he's acting different from normal" - well, yes, but he's also seeming rather different from last game, where, you know, he actually was scum.

Seems to me, the main reason uber was picked over Lewwyn is that Gaspar had a fair suspicion that zak (and possibly pocketbeetle) would join him on the wagon...

[Gaspar]

Well, given that both uber and Lewwyn already had votes at that point, I don't really get your drift there. But that main reasons I went with uber over Lewwyn were that I liked the read better and I know that I have a tendency to always think Lewwyn is scum, which I'm trying to balance a bit.

My thoughts on the nightkill pretty much totally come from the fact I thought it was peculiar. And since I had a bit of suspicion on all three players, it seemed a reasonable prism to look at their reasoning for whom to off at night. Particularly since any of the three are more likely than not to be the leader of their scum group.

I wouldn't call any of it a smoking gun, but it seemed like a reasonable place to start.