AT loves it when a plan comes together!! [Spoilers]

[MindyMcCready]

Let's discuss this:

[MindyMcCready]

Let's discuss this:

So as I see it unfolding.
T-1:
-Our main stack departs from Horizon 1W of Horizon.
-Unpromoted maces that can switch to W2 or CR would be ideal.
-Our 2/3 galleys are in LALaw with 2 maces unpromoted + 1 unpromoted LBs + 1 pike.
-Jowy's likely reaction is to fully reinforce Eden Prime. He'll want the defensive bonus.

T0:
-Main Stack is WW Horizon.
-Move 1 LB and 3 workers 1W of Horizon if we think that we can be safe. These units are for reinforcing a run at Ranner.
-Our 2-3 galleys are now in sight.
-Jowy's possible reactions:
J1. He might not notice that these are 4-move galleys. If that's the case he'll think that he has one more turn. Troops may redeploy from Eden Prime towards Citadel.
J2: He notices that they're 4-move galleys. He whips and redeploys. If Jowy's holding a stack between Eden Prime and Citadel then we might not take it. Lower likelihood scenario since he'll benefit from the fortify bonus.

T1:
-Our W2 maces checks out Ranner. If lightly guarded we can take that city and move in the LB. 3-workers are for roading if necessary.
-If Jowy misses that we have 4-move galleys then he's going to have all of his troops in Eden Prime. It might be tough to take. If we feel safe in the forest then bombard down the walls.

T2:
-Jowy's pretty screwed. He could divert his troops to retake Citadel but at the cost of Eden Prime.
-Super Galleys swing over to BJ to pick up troops to reinforce Citadel or take Novaria.

That would be super tough to defend against. Wouldn't want to be in Jowy's shoes.

[AutomatedTeller]

Boating Citadel would be nice, of course - Noveria would fall by default.

Options with galleys:

4 moves means 3 promos which means 8 xp. Which means we can do 2. 3 moves is 2 promos, which is 4 xp, which means we can do 5, which is better. however, we can't completely surprise him with 3 movers.

Alternatively, we can switch to theocracy and make 3 and upgrade 3 to 8 XP (2 will get 9 xp, of course) A Theocracy switch is a loss of a turn and a loss of 25% bonus for infra and loss of ability to make missionaries easily, so it's not free. It is less expensive than OR, of course.

We could switch to Vassalage and Theocracy, but that dumps us out of Bureau, and our bureau cap is a major advantage, so I don't want to do that.

We can make a FIVE move galley, if we want, and directly boat Citadel with 2 maces. with 20 xp, we get flanking, nav I and II and Morale, plus something else. That's risky, though - I don't think Citadel is on a hill, but even so, the archer would defend at 7.2 and we'd attack at 8 and there's a good chance we'd lose both and we would probably lose one. Then we have 1 unit, maybe hurt, defending his capitol, for 3 turns. Sure, we'll be moving on Eden Prime, but...

I think the 5 move galley is too big a risk.

I think going to Theo is a possibility, but it's a cost and it kind of telegraphs to everyone that I'm in a near-permanent war situation.

that said - dumping 2 maces and 2 LB in the woods east of Citadel with 4 movers is a possibiity. And I can see using fast moving galleys later to boat Commodore on lake superior.

[AutomatedTeller]

We are crossposting a little - we could build 3 2 xp galleys out of NYPDBlue and upgrade them to 4 movers, yes. It requires some worker turns to make the fort, but that's ok. We would also need to redeploy some forces - the WIII mace we currently have is by BJ and the bear - but that's possible, too.

I think 3 galleys is better than 2 - we can maybe swing one by Noveria on the way in and take it, too.

Timing is an issue - this would take 3-6 turns to set up - 3 turns of galley builds, plus however long it takes workers to build a fort, plus move time for the galleys.

I kind of like it, though.

[MindyMcCready]

We are crossposting a little - we could build 3 2 xp galleys out of NYPDBlue and upgrade them to 4 movers, yes. It requires some worker turns to make the fort, but that's ok. We would also need to redeploy some forces - the WIII mace we currently have is by BJ and the bear - but that's possible, too.

I think 3 galleys is better than 2 - we can maybe swing one by Noveria on the way in and take it, too.

Timing is an issue - this would take 3-6 turns to set up - 3 turns of galley builds, plus however long it takes workers to build a fort, plus move time for the galleys.

I kind of like it, though.

Yes, I intended to say 4 movers but blabbed 3 movers.

Summary: Bureau + Theo

I don't think that its bad to signal that we're in permanent military mode. Cornflakes might be less likely to take a stab at a military mobilized civilization. It also may cause TT and Commodore to hold off for a while thinking that the fighting is closer than it actually is; although they can probably just look a Jowy's power level to figure out that he's not doing great. Don't know. It might induce them to rush harder for a piece of Jowy.

The 25% OR bonus doesn't matter if we're not producing anything and missionaries are hard to come by given our military demands. So not too much of a loss there, they're almost non-considerations really given the 5 cities that we're considering pushing for.

Those civics would allow the boat to come from BJ or LA rather than our HE +2XP city that's making sweet CR maces and kick-a$$ cats. That might help with the timing and make the CR maces come out a little stronger after the battle.

I guess every city with a barracks can make 3-promo LBs with 1 civic? Yeah, that's well worth it. We need those LB to protect against Cornflakes anyway. They'll be effective defenders for quite some time.

Yeah I'd say that military civics is the way to go at this point. I think that we only need 1 civic if the second civic costs us an extra turn of anarchy. 2 civics get us 7XP with a barracks so that's not that important if it costs us an extra turn of anarchy.

[MindyMcCready]

Other options if Eden Prime looks too tough to crack.

[AutomatedTeller]

I'm not worried about Cornflakes attacking any time soon.

Score right now (from CivStats):

Commdore: 996
Cornflakes: 950
AT: 915

Cities we have taken from cornflakes: 0
Cities commodore has taken from cornflakes: 1

Best defensive unit we can make: CG III LB.
Best defensive unit Commodore can make: CG1 LB

Power rating us: #2
Power rating Commodore: #3, at best.

personally, I think cornflakes is going to swallow Azza and expand, then hit either Commdore or 2Metra. if we do nothing to infuriate him, he's not coming after us.

me,


Of course, we did orchestrate people pulling trade routes, and we sold tech to his adversary - but overall, I think he'll go kill Commodore. Or 2metra, who borders him, as well.

Civics:

In Vassalage and Theo, NYPB Blue can make 3 promo maces and cats, and we don't need to make a fort to get units into the lake. 5 4 move galleys means a really fast force that can be used against Commodore's Lake Superior cities. The lack of worker turns is what is hurting us most right now, so I like that plan....

[AutomatedTeller]

Other options if Eden Prime looks too tough to crack.

Forts only work as canals if they are next to a city, so we'd have to place a city by that lower fort. Is getting galleys there buying us anything?

[MindyMcCready]

I'm not worried about Cornflakes attacking any time soon,....he's not coming after us.

Let's not start that again. Last time you said that you felt comfortable,...

Deterrant against opportunism as always before musing of opportunism become dreams of grandeur. Let's not kid ourselves; Cornflakes can take cities from us anytime that he wants. 20T from now, probably not. Right now, yes and easily.

Keep showing CGIII LB and put walls in our border cities. That's what made Jowy bypass LALaw to his detriment.

Score right now (from CivStats):

Commdore: 996
Cornflakes: 950
AT: 915

Yeah, I can't belive it. Its incredible that we're doing so well considering we came within spitting distance of near total collapse. And have we built *any* infrastructure other than granaries and lighthouses?

But still, let's keep our score whipped down until we've nabbed Jowy's cities.

Power rating us: #2
Power rating Commodore: #3, at best.

Yeah, that's good that it looks like Commodore might not be in a position to easily invade Jowy. Keep up the pressure before Commodore is ready. Nobody would expect us to counter attack so quick I imagine. Vultures wait until they're sure of an easy meal.

Civics:

In Vassalage and Theo, NYPB Blue can make 3 promo maces and cats, and we don't need to make a fort to get units into the lake. 5 4 move galleys means a really fast force that can be used against Commodore's Lake Superior cities. The lack of worker turns is what is hurting us most right now, so I like that plan....

It sounds like you want both military civics? You're bypassing bureau now? That's interesting. Good I think too. Even if Jowy got LBs, the CRIII Maces can still put a hurt on. And WIII maces or WII/WIII Pikes will pick off wooded elephants with ease.

So if we're going both military civics,...that Academy is less effective if no bureau. Are we ready for a GA to polish off Jowy and handle the double civic switch? Not great going into GA while having war weariness. But still 2T (if that's what it is) of anarchy will really help Jowy reinforce. And the extra hammers will probably 1T those maces in NYPD. And we can get those maces to the front FAST with those galleys.

[AutomatedTeller]

Well, I'm getting more and more sold on the "double switch and kill Jowy" plan. I have to think about how it will effect our ability to get to Guilds, though. Losing a bureau cap is a big hit and, considering that we'll probably be until we kick off a GA to change back, a tech hit.

Honestly, the idea of 5 4-move galleys and the flexibility it gives us in dealing with commodore later on the road (we could conceivably boat 2 cities before he knew we were attacking) - and maybe even cornflakes. They can be the surprise that keeps on giving