WW23: The Heart of Gold

[uberfish]

@zak

It's not necessary for scum reading the post to go through the full deduction process - the sentence that a nightkill implies my innocence is enough to just cancel the night kill imo if they want me mislynched today. I do think 5 minutes is enough time to make a decision, given that a fair amount of deadline vote sniping happens at day deadlines here.

It's also possible that scum might have tried to kill me as a devious ploy in order to make Gaspar and PB look bad, if they think they could trade one mislynch for two. Unfortunately, even after I flip it's impossible to tell which of these two scenarios is really the case because of PB's bad timing.

How would I have played this game as scum? I call the Ryan policy lynch stupid and probably park my vote on one of the Ryan voters. Then if you attack me for that, I kill you night 1 because you're too familiar with my scum MO from last game anyway, and blame it on Gaspar. Not sure if I'd have bussed bigger or not in the circumstances, but I certainly wouldn't have hesitated to do so if I felt I needed more town cred.

[uberfish]

In general the lack of discussion here, now that there's a lot of information, is far more anti-town than anything that happened on day 1, and everyone who complained about of activity day 1 gets about a million scum points for sitting on my wagon on the basis of PB's fail claim and doing nothing to establish my innocence or guilt based on actual evidence. Because one of them is scum sitting there, praying that no one moves or says anything that would help town come to the right conclusion, and wishing the day would end right now.

Maybe I should post "if I was scum I'd have killed Zakalwe night 1" 10 times with slightly different wording too?

[zakalwe]

Maybe I should post "if I was scum I'd have killed Zakalwe night 1" 10 times with slightly different wording too?

I was actually about to comment on that, as I was a little surprised to see you pull the exact same defense as Gaspar.

The irony is exceedingly delicious!

For me it really hinges on PB's claim. Without that, I would still be on Gaspar. But it's hard to find an explanation for his claim that makes more sense than "Uberfish is scum". And if I assume that Gaspar is innocent, it does make sense that you are scum, with the way you pushed him on day 2, as the most promising mislynch candidate. Bigger was really just treading water through all of day 2, which indicates that his buddy was under pressure. That fits with Gaspar, but it also fits with you.

It's also possible that PB is scum but it seems less likely. If he is, then he probably is a real jailer and jailed you while deliberately abstaining from the kill. I guess the plan would be to WIFOM his way out after your lynch. This sounds a little too fancy but who knows. If PB is scum then he's playing very well; on the other hand, Bigger made some pretty weak attacks on PB that might be interpreted as poor distancing attempts.

If neither you nor PB is scum then I'm still not seeing a very satisfactory answer to the lack of a death. Killing you to frame Gaspar and PB? I'm not buying that; it would do little to implicate them. The best I can come up with is if the last scum is an ability seer. Then either he scanned you, and considered you an extraordinary threat, or he scanned PB, and deliberately no-killed, in order to frame whoever PB targeted. As Gaspar would say, though, this requires a lot of moving parts.

[pocketbeetle]

Other randomness: yes, it makes no sense what-so-ever for pb to be scum, given he actively hammered Bigger, but the name of his claimed ability makes so much more sense as a kill method than a jailer

VILE SLANDER!
Mattimeo is hereby placed on disciplinary warning, and will suspiciously find himself picking up every unsociable and weekend duty for the foreseeable future.
Starting with the latrines!

I'm glad you've come along though and had nothing contrary to offer.
My one concern was that another villager would enter the conversation with the opener "umm actually guys I also used an ability last night ".

So assuming that's not the case, we should be good.

PB, does your ability block ALL actions?

Also, at this point, it doesn't matter if scum saw PB post 6 minutes early. He's claimed Jailer and Uberfish has claimed jailer. I do not think novice would put two jailers into a 9 player game.

To be clear, everything I have said about my character is true, but I have not given -all- the details on my role.
There is information relevant to this line of argument, but I neither want to introduce doubt to my claim (uh oh he's trying to position himself defensively should uberfish flip innocent), nor do I want to give the currently scrabbling wolf any material to work with. Everything that is relevant to make an informed decision has been presented to the village.
Make sense?

Anyone have any good casserole recipes we can compare for the next 48 hours?

Sadly I do not, however I could offer to give you a personal poetry recital!
I'm out of my best material, so it would have to be my rough experimental works, compositions that I'm not sure are ready for public consumption yet.
Would you like to be my test hamster?

In general the lack of discussion here, now that there's a lot of information, is far more anti-town than anything that happened on day 1, and everyone who complained about of activity day 1 gets about a million scum points for sitting on my wagon on the basis of PB's fail claim and doing nothing to establish my innocence or guilt based on actual evidence.

Oh go on then, I'll feed you.

Seeing as I've already set up myself up on a huge, great big plinth for this lynch, a little gloating will hardly make any fall from grace any worse for me.
(Plus I won't lie, I get cheap vicarious thrills from teasing you while you're locked into this silly defense.)

So uberfish, would you like me to explain some of the mistakes you've been making over the past 24 hours?

I stress, not with the intention of trying to catch you out or strengthen my case which has already been presented.
Simply consider it an offer of a few pointers on how to play a better endgame scum, "Pb's ABC guide to finding your inner wolf" if you will.
And don't worry about saying yes, you can always defend it as wanting to know the arguments against you, with the intention of tearing them down around my failtown head.

Interested?

[Gaspar]

The day one silence was an active hindrance to scum-hunting, since it ended up with us lynching the path of least resistance. I thought it would end up with nothing but as it turned out, the little actual playing the game that occurred had us on the two scum so PB's vote analysis, which I would normally deride as premature, resulted in us basically being able to narrow the pool.

Today's silence is because the game is over. There is nothing left to discuss, at least from my end. There's nothing anyone could say that would get me to vote for anyone other than uberfish. That was true even before PB's claim for me - I still was completely convinced that was the next best course of action. The claim certainly lead pipe locks it, but regardless, I have nothing else to say.

PB's played an astonishingly good game for his first game in forever, though I suppose no surprise there. Lewwyn's played a very good game. I played a usual Gaspar game, which is just good enough. Mattimeo's been all over the place but made a key vote yesterday so get's a plus. Zak's been zak, but gets points for playing it straight enough on day one to convince me of his innocence. Otherwise the game might have devolved into zak vs Gaspar theatre even more than it did and probably would have given scum better room to hide. Serdoa and Ryan weren't around long enough to get a grade.

The scum had some bad luck, but at the end of the day I think the biggest mistake they made was letting the Ryan lynch sail through so easily. Anyway, these small games hinge on small decisions and this game certainly could have gone either way if Matt had stayed on me yesterday and PB couldn't block the kill as easily with 2 scum left. That would have probably left a zak, uber, Bigger, PB, Matt LyLo and I'd guess that Bigger and Uber could have gotten Mattimeo lynched for the win.

Was pretty fun outside of the vendetta but I definitely prefer larger games. Was interesting to see a game with such a high good player ratio though, not sure we've ever had one this high before.

I probably won't post again before the deadline, though I'll try and read the thread in case PB does anything entertaining.

[Mattimeo]

[quote='zakalwe' pid='364826' dateline='1367473331']
PB, does your ability block ALL actions?

Also, at this point, it doesn't matter if scum saw PB post 6 minutes early. He's claimed Jailer and Uberfish has claimed jailer. I do not think novice would put two jailers into a 9 player game.

To be clear, everything I have said about my character is true, but I have not given -all- the details on my role.
There is information relevant to this line of argument, but I neither want to introduce doubt to my claim (uh oh he's trying to position himself defensively should uberfish flip innocent), nor do I want to give the currently scrabbling wolf any material to work with. Everything that is relevant to make an informed decision has been presented to the village.
Make sense?

I'd much rather a full disclosure, even if you believe certain points might not necessarily be relevant. Especially now you've mentioned that there *is* more to your role.

In general the lack of discussion here, now that there's a lot of information, is far more anti-town than anything that happened on day 1, and everyone who complained about of activity day 1 gets about a million scum points for sitting on my wagon on the basis of PB's fail claim and doing nothing to establish my innocence or guilt based on actual evidence.

Oh go on then, I'll feed you.

Seeing as I've already set up myself up on a huge, great big plinth for this lynch, a little gloating will hardly make any fall from grace any worse for me.
(Plus I won't lie, I get cheap vicarious thrills from teasing you while you're locked into this silly defense.)

So uberfish, would you like me to explain some of the mistakes you've been making over the past 24 hours?

I stress, not with the intention of trying to catch you out or strengthen my case which has already been presented.
Simply consider it an offer of a few pointers on how to play a better endgame scum, "Pb's ABC guide to finding your inner wolf" if you will.
And don't worry about saying yes, you can always defend it as wanting to know the arguments against you, with the intention of tearing them down around my failtown head.

Interested?

Again, I'd be interested. Provide sufficiently convincing wolf tells and you might even get me voting for him.

In the meantime, useless and pointless vote on pocketbeetle for claiming further information on two fronts but not revealing any of that information for us to actually judge its relevance. Which is really bloody annoying.

[Mattimeo]

well, I guess I fail at quote parsing :/

corrected:

PB, does your ability block ALL actions?

Also, at this point, it doesn't matter if scum saw PB post 6 minutes early. He's claimed Jailer and Uberfish has claimed jailer. I do not think novice would put two jailers into a 9 player game.

To be clear, everything I have said about my character is true, but I have not given -all- the details on my role.
There is information relevant to this line of argument, but I neither want to introduce doubt to my claim (uh oh he's trying to position himself defensively should uberfish flip innocent), nor do I want to give the currently scrabbling wolf any material to work with. Everything that is relevant to make an informed decision has been presented to the village.
Make sense?

I'd much rather a full disclosure, even if you believe certain points might not necessarily be relevant. Especially now you've mentioned that there *is* more to your role.

In general the lack of discussion here, now that there's a lot of information, is far more anti-town than anything that happened on day 1, and everyone who complained about of activity day 1 gets about a million scum points for sitting on my wagon on the basis of PB's fail claim and doing nothing to establish my innocence or guilt based on actual evidence.

Oh go on then, I'll feed you.

Seeing as I've already set up myself up on a huge, great big plinth for this lynch, a little gloating will hardly make any fall from grace any worse for me.
(Plus I won't lie, I get cheap vicarious thrills from teasing you while you're locked into this silly defense.)

So uberfish, would you like me to explain some of the mistakes you've been making over the past 24 hours?

I stress, not with the intention of trying to catch you out or strengthen my case which has already been presented.
Simply consider it an offer of a few pointers on how to play a better endgame scum, "Pb's ABC guide to finding your inner wolf" if you will.
And don't worry about saying yes, you can always defend it as wanting to know the arguments against you, with the intention of tearing them down around my failtown head.

Interested?

Again, I'd be interested. Provide sufficiently convincing wolf tells and you might even get me voting for him.

In the meantime, useless and pointless vote on pocketbeetle for claiming further information on two fronts but not revealing any of that information for us to actually judge its relevance. Which is really bloody annoying.

[uberfish]

I've managed to get reactions so I've done my job as town here. If I die today the fault is 95% PB's anyway whether he is town or scum, so I'm not going to count it towards my personal mislynch record.


@Zak - you were the one who asked me what I'd do as scum It's not like I was using killing you as a main line of defence. The main point is that tactically my play makes no sense as scum on day 1 though since I'd have:

1) clustered with Bigger on Ryan, when I didn't need to, and had already voiced some suspicion of Bigger
2) made it easier to hunt for "scum on Ryan" by the above, and by eliminating Serdoa
3) failed to protect myself by killing one of my attackers on n1

Whereas if gaspar is scum then he:

1) avoided being with his partner on the mislynch wagon
2) killed Serdoa to preserve the voting bloc on me for the next day
3) protected himself by killing one of the players who had voiced a Gaspar+Bigger scum theory

Which of these scenarios makes more sense from a scum tactical POV? Why does gaspar ignore all these arguments and focus late in d2 ONLY on the theory that he'd 100% kill zak night 1 and post laughably fake postmortems? Why would he not want to get more material to attack his supposed top suspect, me, with? Because he can't refute them. He already made a failed attempt to explain away the n1 kill as attributable to me on the basis of "style" and doesn't want to make himself look worse with more bad logic.

Anyway at this point even if I do die, I still need to convince you that PB's claim isn't admissible as evidence for anyone being scum or town. Gaspar was around within an hour of the deadline, and if he's scum that's monitoring the thread closely or has it on email subscription there's enough time to catch that PB post. We may disagree on the likelihood of various scenarios but if I'm mislynched then you have to admit that I was right and we cannot be sure whether scum changed orders at the last minute.

Although reasons 1-2 above would also apply to PB as far as scum day 1 play goes, I don't think PB being scum is as likely because it's an unnecessarily fancy play. If he's scum he could have just killed Mattimeo or yourself and tried to mislynch me the normal way, without tying himself down to a claim at this early stage. That said, he does post a lot of pointless filler in his walls of text.


@PB I'll give you a chance here. Either we both drop the rhetoric and you focus the argument by posting what you think are your 3 or so strongest points against me, or I just amuse myself by calling you an idiot for the rest of the game until I'm proved right. Deal?


Gaspar's postmortem is hilariously fake. If he was town being this certain I was scum he'd post nothing or a "die scum" 1-liner rather than waste his time making a 100% useless post.

[uberfish]

And btw if I am lynched. PB full claims first thing day 4. Before anyone else. Accept no excuses.

[pocketbeetle]

In the meantime, useless and pointless vote on pocketbeetle for claiming further information on two fronts but not revealing any of that information for us to actually judge its relevance. Which is really bloody annoying.

Yes but it's a fun, suspenseful kind of annoying, surely!

@PB I'll give you a chance here. Either we both drop the rhetoric and you focus the argument by posting what you think are your 3 or so strongest points against me, or I just amuse myself by calling you an idiot for the rest of the game until I'm proved right. Deal?

Was that a "pretty please Pb, I'd like to be initiated into the inner mysteries of wolfhood"?