Well the good news is that time is no longer against us. The bad news is that Longbows are.
Somethings to consider:
1. Jowy might still have a pulse. He might have been saving his whips for LBs. That would make sense, he could count the turns it would take to make it to Eden Prime and conclude 'no reason to rush'.
Options:
1. Stay at war. Reduce ambitions to take Rannoch and Noveria. We'll probably run into TT up there. 3-way concern is a risky proposition, but TT is probably just looking for some easy pickings.
2. Stay at war. Stay the course on the plan. Operation Prime is still useful as a distraction for taking Citadel. We'd absolutely need 4 maces + Pike + LB.
3. White Peace. Sit back and watch TT and Jowy trade hammers. TT looks less prepared for an invasion than we are. If he takes a city, then Jowy might expend a lot of hammers trying to take it back but he'd more likely hold back waiting for us to come at him 10T from now.
4. Demand payment for peace. 200G, 20GPT for our troubles. Jowy might take this as more convincing that bygones are bygones and defend against TT more vigorously.
I prefer Options #3 and Option #4. I was rushing into Jowy because he was underprepared. That's no longer the case and I expect that we'll see those long overdue whips start to happen. And I'm not keen to see TT gain a foot hold there. As France he's going to be extremely dangerous once he lands the combo of Knights and Mustakeers. We'll need a BIG stack of catapults up that way. TT is off limits for provocations unless absolutely required.
If we go the #3 and #4 route then save the GG for the 5 galleys that you were talking about before. That's our new ticket into Citadel.
NOTE: A city NN of Rannoch would shut out TT's city plants in the area. It's surrounded in jungle, so that's not good, but it can work 3 tiles that could build walls and a castle. That would be a good defense point against TT. IF,...Rannoch somehow gets razed by either us or TT.
Maybe just send our WII maces to harass TT and cut his roads to slow his progress and signal our displeasure,....but I don't really want to provoke him.
(May 3rd, 2013, 08:03)MindyMcCready Wrote: Well the good news is that time is no longer against us. The bad news is that Longbows are.
Somethings to consider:
1. Jowy might still have a pulse. He might have been saving his whips for LBs. That would make sense, he could count the turns it would take to make it to Eden Prime and conclude 'no reason to rush'.
Options:
1. Stay at war. Reduce ambitions to take Rannoch and Noveria. We'll probably run into TT up there. 3-way concern is a risky proposition, but TT is probably just looking for some easy pickings.
2. Stay at war. Stay the course on the plan. Operation Prime is still useful as a distraction for taking Citadel. We'd absolutely need 4 maces + Pike + LB.
3. White Peace. Sit back and watch TT and Jowy trade hammers. TT looks less prepared for an invasion than we are. If he takes a city, then Jowy might expend a lot of hammers trying to take it back but he'd more likely hold back waiting for us to come at him 10T from now.
4. Demand payment for peace. 200G, 20GPT for our troubles. Jowy might take this as more convincing that bygones are bygones and defend against TT more vigorously.
I prefer Options #3 and Option #4. I was rushing into Jowy because he was underprepared. That's no longer the case and I expect that we'll see those long overdue whips start to happen. And I'm not keen to see TT gain a foot hold there. As France he's going to be extremely dangerous once he lands the combo of Knights and Mustakeers. We'll need a BIG stack of catapults up that way. TT is off limits for provocations unless absolutely required.
If we go the #3 and #4 route then save the GG for the 5 galleys that you were talking about before. That's our new ticket into Citadel.
We can kill Jowy - with TT in on the game, probably taking Rennoch and whatever that city to the west of Rannoch is, and presumably commodore will cut off his ivory - we can do it.
it's just a longer haul, is all.
My gut says to not kick off the GA right now.
It's a good point about musketeers, which TT can research right now. That said, he's also almost certainly building unis and has a war on - I was kind of considering planting the settler up north, making a stack of HA, upgrading them to knights, and see what we can take in TT's land.
But I'd forgotten about musketeers - they are a real pain in the ass...
btw - from looking at civstats, azza lost his city (no big surprise there)
Jowy did a 1 pop and 2 pop whip, which aren't LB. I'd expect to see some whips next turn, though.
Making peace now and war in 10T could also give us enough time to go land that Barbarian city.
Boy those barbs are a pest!
When/if we make peace with Jowy, let's pull all the maces and cats out back to LA that we're not using on the barb city. Try to be as convincing as possible so that Jowy vigorously defends against TT. He might conclude that Cornflakes' power is scaring us,...which it is.
(May 3rd, 2013, 08:22)AutomatedTeller Wrote: We can kill Jowy - with TT in on the game, probably taking Rennoch and whatever that city to the west of Rannoch is, and presumably commodore will cut off his ivory - we can do it.
it's just a longer haul, is all.
My gut says to not kick off the GA right now.
It's a good point about musketeers, which TT can research right now. That said, he's also almost certainly building unis and has a war on - I was kind of considering planting the settler up north, making a stack of HA, upgrading them to knights, and see what we can take in TT's land.
But I'd forgotten about musketeers - they are a real pain in the ass...
btw - from looking at civstats, azza lost his city (no big surprise there)
Jowy did a 1 pop and 2 pop whip, which aren't LB. I'd expect to see some whips next turn, though.
You want more war! Looks like I've unleashed the beast!
Well, I also think that we can kill off Jowy but the question is how hard will it be and what will we get out of it? Right now, it'll take quite a bit more work to do that and we just don't have the cats to pull off Operation Prime (other than strictly distractio) and, due to LB, we don't have the units or galleys to pull off Operation Lobo.
All Operation Prime could accomplish is a distraction for the Citadel location, which you've said that we probably can't pull off with the current allocated troops, and maybe pick off Rannoch. But Rannoch has just as good of a chance of falling to TT.
Right now, if we declare peace we could really drag TT through the mud without firing a shot. And operation Lobo could still get us 3 cities at very low effort. 10T from now we just build up our troops in Horizon showing 10 cats or whatever. High likelihood that Jowy's still going to have Citadel, Noveria and Thessia wide open. And we might have time to get to the barb city and back?
If we don't kick off the golden age then we can't get those high promo galleys. So make sure we don't let those get built until we do run the GA.
Bottom Line:
If, over the next 10T-12T we have a very good chance of landing
1. Barb City
2. City plant N of Horizon
3. Citadel, Noveria, Thessia
Then we've done pretty well at a minimum of effort.
Hmm... I was assuming there was no way to take citadel by sea, because he could just dry whip in a LB - but I don't think that's true.
A CR3 mace on a LB in a 60% city with no promos is 8 on 6.6, which isn't a guaranteed win, but is pretty good. Certainly enough to hurt the LB enough to die with a followup.
The archer is just toast. Then we'd have 2 LB in his capital, with 2 more units a turn behind for reinforcements. Course, if he puts a LB in there and just lets it sit, we are basically done.
But it feels like kind of a gambit, now - one that might not work and one that is relatively expensive.
My gut says that we should offer peace for gpt - given that he asked for Paper for peace, he might not go for it. Either that, or drive on Eden Prime with what we have and hope that 3 cats can hurt the defense enough to allow us to to kill it - I think we'd ignore Rennoch and leave that to TT.
Say he can build 2 LB and add that to, say, 3 elephants, 2 catapults, 2 archers, an axe and maybe a warrior. That's 12 defenders, 10 of which can take collateral, so 1.5 half hits per. The cats will fight the LB at 5 on 12.3, doing 13 damage a hit - say they get 2 hits in - so, the LB's defend at 9.1 . A C2 mace attacks at 9.6, so that's odds. Course, the cats have probably attacked us, and we are attacking at, i dunno, 85% strength.
I'm thinking option #3 or 4, myself. he'll take peace if it was offered straight up, I'm sure of that. I dunno if he'll take it if he has to pay, given that he asked for Paper before.
Course, if we just sit and he sits, then TT rips apart his northern cities. This is a puzzler, all right...
Jowy's going to defend Eden Prime, that's probably his most important city other than Citadel. Sure we can take it after get in another half dozen cats or so. But TT's going to be picking up Rannoch and Ferros for a song while we do the heavy lifting.
We could divert to Rannoch and Ferros, but we expose Horizon to counter attack and we're also in a 3-way competition which is just too unpredictable to plan around.
Hit Girl, your military advisor is councelling peace.
CR3 Mace vs Longbow 60%? Are we sure about that? And that's an amphibious landing? I think that I saw that cat in a boat and that cat can't contirbute anything in a surprise attack.
With the current 3-galley plan for Operation Lobo; we could take Citadel, we might not be able to hold it. We could definately take and hold Noveria,....but it might require our FRONT LINE CITY of BJ to stop building infrastructure,...
10 turns from now:
4 galleys give us pretty much a guarantee of taking Citadel and Noveria.
5 galleys gives us Citadel, Noveria and a solid chance at Thessia.
10T,...TT looks unprepared,....Commodore's busy right now and 2metra's not likely to forgive him. We'll definately be more constrained by Cornflakes by then though,... but we might have enough HA and Knights to whip from one area to another.
Let's keep an eye on TT's tech. Knights might give us some easy wins if he trades blows with Jowy,...gonna cause a firestorm from mustakeers later though.
