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t74 - 31g to sooooo, Music comes in. Research back to 0% parked in Drama (if someone can see my research I don't want to give anything away). De-MM my cities back to normal and am making a quite respectable 68g/turn.
Istanbul stays on Hagia, Bursa builds Culture for 1t to pop borders, and Samsun whips it's Granary.
Twist & Tim both move to chop/mine grass hills, Amber moves to improve the Western Road network, Tyres moves to add a Cottage to Edirne, and Bria starts work on the Pigs. Joseph Conrad heads to Bursa.
Archer in the East promotes and moves to better defensive terrain to intercept the new Barb Warrior. Two Warriors now in Zapotec, so HA attacks and wins - 5xp now!
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Calling all lurkers! Can anyone point me to an article that explains how espionage is affected by game speed. I found the following by raiding the 'Poly Espionage thread:
Quote:See Research requires 0.75 * (100 + his EP against me).
but it doesn't explain why Ruff can see athlete's research:
Ruff has 60 vs athlete against 42, but by the formula he'd need 107eps, not just 60.
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t75 - 1AD!
Samsun: Granary - Barracks
Bursa: Pops borders and back to Barracks
Trading maps with Ruff - hmmmm good views of his & sooooo's lands. I wonder if he's also traded with mh, since I can see much more of the NW than I could before. I also see that Augsburg is a dead-end, so Chariot turns around to head back.
Chop/Mine complete at Istanbul - 9t on Hagia Sofia now.
5xp Archer promotes CII to get 95% odds on Barb (CI was only 72%) ... wins! Now at 7xp, so will walk across to Barb city.
Marcia moves to chop/mine the Jungle hill South of Ankara.
Will do a big-map update soon with Ruff's new map info.
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The Quick speed multiplier is generally 0.67, but that isn't enough to explain the delta.
Darrell
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The only way that I found to explain it is if both the "100" and the "0.75" multiplier in the formula are adjusted by the 0.67 adjustment.
Well the other two options are that there's a hidden(?) multiplier based on total EP spend, or that Ruff is "embellishing the truth" and can't actually see athlete's research.
But really what I want to know is whether someone else can see mine!
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A final attempt to incite mh to trade MC with me:
Quote:mh,
I'm going to try once more to "make you an offer you can't refuse" to try and get you to trade MC to me. I believe that I currently have CS, Music, HBR, Monotheism - and in 2t will have Drama - available to trade to you. I understand that you are planning to research CS yourself, and I know that several of these techs are devalued by their widespread nature or loss of "first discoverer" benefits, so I have developed three potential offers which greatly weigh the "sticker prices" in your favour:
1) MC for Mono, HBR & Music
2) MC for Mono, HBR & Drama
3) MC for Drama & Music
I'd also be willing to consider substituting any or all of these tech for a sum of Gold to be negotiated.
If any of these offers interest you please let me know.
Dreylin II.
All of these are beaker-wise heavily in mh's favour, however most of the techs (HBR excluded) have limited uses. I don't have Drama yet, but it is now a 2t tech (I have the stored gold to take it on immediately), and I'd rather grab a new tech than dup-research MC. We'll see whether mh can resist even lop-sided trade offers.
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regoarrarr Wrote:What about MC for CS? Hmmmm, it's a thought. I've suggested a CS for MC + gold (to be negotiated) trade before and had it completely ignored; and I guess that mh now has at least one trade lined up for CS so the likelyhood decreases. But he could dup-research Machinery rather than CS (I'd trade with him rather than sooooo) for about the same cost. Maybe I'll suggest it if he responds to my offers; or you could suggest it to him in his thread... 
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An e-mail back from athlete this morning:
Quote:Hey Dreylin,
I wanted to discuss the NAP proposal with you. There is currently a barb city, Zapotec, by your borders (that direction will be my next expansion) and I have a horse archer near by (2 turns away). There is only 1 warrior in that city so I would like to take it and attempt to keep it. The barb city is on what looks to be a natural border divide (though more rightly on land that would be considered yours). What I'm proposing to you is to allow me to take and attempt to keep it and I'll accept your NAP offer (with 2 slight changes) for a minimum 40t duration, with a 10t notice of cancellation. So the NAP could not be cancelled prior to turn 30 and if at some point it is cancelled there is a 10t cooling period prior to any war can break out. As well when I say attempt to keep the barb city Zapotec I am recognizing the fact that your cultural presence is already there and possibly if the city were to flip to you in the future it would be your city to do with what you want. I would like an assurance from you though that you would not actively try and flip it :-).
Let me know your thoughts and if you're happy with this or if you'd like to make any further adjustments.
As for tech trading re: Feudalism I need to get CS for it. I know at this time you have it but 1 of either MH or Soooo is researching it and will be finished the same time I finish Feudalism so I'm still contemplating trading options...Just wanted to keep you up to date there.
Athlete
At first I was like "WTF, that's clearly my territory and I've had units there for the past 10-20t myself!?" But then when I thought about it, I realised that Zapotec is in the defensively worst position in that area, and what's more it's extremely difficult for him to reinforce round the South of Banana Lake. The NAP would be a bit longer than I'd have preferred, however it would leave me free to get militant on mh....
The trade rebuttal is pretty-much what I'd expected, but I can at least try and intice him with a promise of immediate delivery.
Quote:Taylor,
Regarding the trade: I understood that mh was going for CS from the other guys, OTOH I do have it in hand right now. Were we to manage to agree a NAP, I would be prepared to trade you CS up-front for Feudalism when you complete it. That would get you 5+ turns extra in Bureaucracy, and probably Feudalism on the same schedule even with the revolt.
Regarding the NAP & Zapotec; I have no problem with the adjusted duration or cancellation terms you suggested. I do have a unit sitting outside Zapotec now, poised to take it and raze it myself. I had no plans to keep Zapotec, since I will be settling a city 3N of the location in ~5t, however I would be prepared to hand over the city after capture, and will agree to not deliberately pressure the city with culture for the duration of our NAP - though I will likely be building Libraries, etc. as necessary in the surrounding cities.
Regards,
Andy.
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t76 - Worker (Bilbo) completes in Ankara - starts Settler. Bilbo movs to chop then cottage the river grass forest NE of Ankara.
Not really a lot going on other than that; builds building, Workers working, explorers exploring and potential 10xp units healing. Oh, and Joseph Conrad is nearly to Bursa.
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