2 Rooms and a Boom: Main Thread [GAME OVER: Red Wins!]

[Jowy]

I'm proud of figuring out that Uberfish was the bomber, on Day 1!

I think I did a good job staying a president candidate. It was a bit annoying on Day 3 when the reds lied to their own about me being "careless with full reveals on Day 1", when my only full reveal was to Amelia who had already announced her color and role in public. I guess whoever lied about it was really confident that I wasn't the president. Blue team's biggest mistake was not sending out orders Day 1, because that allowed the spy and fugitive to go to different rooms. If we kept them in the same room, we would always know there was 1 blue 1 red. On Day 3 it was painfully obvious that Rowain would vote with the reds, having already made up his mind. I tried to conjure an argument out of thin air to make him switch sides, but as we've read now after the game, he was already on the red side because blue didn't work with him on Day 1 and 2.

Thank you Brick for organizing the game! I don't know how it holds up against other games like this, but I feel it was a good introduction.

[Lewwyn]

Its not that blue didn't try to work with Rowain Day 1. He never actually revealed with any of us. It was painfully obvious that he just wanted to do whatever he wanted to do. The red ended up voting for him because no one on the red team was really trying to take control. The blue team was trying and was voting for blue. Rowain didn't vote with the reds. He just wanted people to vote for him. Why should blue have voted for him in that instance? Why be punished for not ceding our agency over to Rowain?

Anyway Brick this ended up being boring for me because there wasn't anything to do. It ended up being more of a chore, not fun and pretty pointless.

[Jkaen]

I think the answer of why vote Rowain rather than one of our own first day has been answered pretty well by the fact we won over both kingmakers.

As for the mass reveals, I just got caught out as I didn't consider the fact lewwyn could be a spy. After that reveals I think just made sense

[Jowy]

I think the answer of why vote Rowain rather than one of our own first day has been answered pretty well by the fact we won over both kingmakers.

Was actually the opposite on Day 3. Reds were voting for red, blues voted for Rowain. It was exactly for the reason of getting him on our side. Reds did end up changing their votes to Rowain once I had pointed it out to Rowain that blues would be ready to give him the power and reds not. Maybe I should have stayed quiet and hoped that Rowain would realize it by himself. That's one intriguing aspect of the game I think. We had another clear case where we just had to trust that people knew the reasons for what we were doing on Day 2, when we sent Bigger away over Selrach. If one of us would be like "WTF blues we should send Selrach over Bigger because Selrach might be the spy!" then we would either have to explain to him or stay quiet, but even if we stayed quiet reds would start thinking "Why WOULD they do that?" and probably come to the same conclusions.

[Rowain]

this is dumb. you were pro-red from day 1, you never tried to work with the blues when I was in the room.

What are you talking about? As far as I remember I did treat both sides equally on D1 (not revealing anything at all). Red decided to vote for me blues not.

BTW my sending you(the Doctor) and 2 blues across (which you wanted ) would have won you the game right there and then if not pure chance had Gazglum moving in the other direction. Had it been a not-uberfish-red instead, blue would have already won right on D2(majority-control of Bomber and President and fulfilment of the Doctor-President reveal) with absolutely no chance for red to do anything about it which shows another elemental flaw in this game.

Why should blue have voted for him in that instance? Why be punished for not ceding our agency over to Rowain?

Because in a situation of 2 sides with equal powers the not involved 'neutral' one decides who wins. That's elementary logic and one main fault in this game. The greys are extremely powerful here because they don't need to care which side wins.

D1 was in that slightly misplayed by blue. But that was not the main problem I had with blue. D2 OTOH was a disaster. None of the new arrived blues - Gaz, Tas, scooter (new as Ryan was not paying D1) - did try to win me over. They did not answer any questions they did not give any information but were constantly asking for more and more and that after I had given them the name of the Doctor. Blue could have won the game right then and there if they get the 2 greys to side with them.

D3 was better. Jowys talking about a blue solo-win made the sending of 2 blues necessary to remove the chance of a blue majority in this room. starting D4 it was clear that the game was won for me and I could either make the boring moves (send a blue, get elected D5 and decide who wins) which would mean that I got Leadership 4 out of 5 days and 16 of 18 players have their win/lose-result simply depending on my mood/decision or give both teams involved at least something to do.

That the president ran into the bomb-room is just showing that I would have been the better President right from the start

[Jowy]

I didn't talk about blue solo-win, I talked about a gray solo-win (you win and Pindicator loses). Which was a lie that you caught :/

[Rowain]

I didn't talk about blue solo-win, I talked about a gray solo-win (you win and Pindicator loses). Which was a lie that you caught :/

I only have blue-solo-win in my mind. Perhaps because a grey-solo-win is impossible. anyway the solo-win-talk/possibility (and IIRC someone uberfish/Selrahc? did point it out) was what made the sending of 2 blues mandatory.

[Jowy]

Both sides could make you lose. It was up to luck, and you got lucky. If the other room sent 1 blue 1 red, or 2 reds, then reds would have the majority and could screw you over. Even though it looked like you were in power, you weren't really.. It was another coin flip.

[Rowain]

Both sides could make you lose. It was up to luck, and you got lucky. If the other room sent 1 blue 1 red, or 2 reds, then reds would have the majority and could screw you over. Even though it looked like you were in power, you weren't really.. It was another coin flip.

But there is a huge difference: Red could screw me but a) they were not in a position to get a solo-win b) they have no pressing need to send anybody and so c) they might send me because I have not acted against them anyway.

Blue OTOH has to send either Pres or Bomb can get a solo-win and have so far been more unfriendly then he reds. In short given these circumstances I thought it far riskier to let blue take control than red.

Not to mention that I did follow quite closely who posted in the Barracks-thread and I saw that most posts where done by blues or pindi and very little from red which made it far more likely that pindi would agree to blue-terms (which of course means 2 blues to send).

[Jowy]

Yeah that's the thing.. Your decision was the right one. But even then, it would come down to a coin flip. You have slightly better odds going with the red, but it's still very close to a coin flip and you could end up at the mercy of others. You had as much power as both reds and blues had at the last round. We could have a hunch of what the other might do, but in the end it's a coin flip. The problem with thinking that you know what the other side will do, is that the other side might think that you know what they will do and thus they will do the opposite.