Ministry of Silly Walks 2: Walk Sillier/Harder

[WarriorKnight]

Finally have CoL! Time for some Caste fun



Thanks to Caste, we have our 3rd GP due t68 and gives me the ability to tech again. Unfortunately, our gold situation is somewhat worse, we plated 3 new cities recently so Shoot can't run 100% science even when I'm giving him all my gpt, but that's just what happens. Fortunately we can build Courthouses now, perhaps that's a good 2nd thing to build after the Granary in your border cities (and my eastern cities if/when they get founded)? Colossus helps too.

Also, if I were to produce a settler for you would that be useful? My production city right on your border is stagnant, so having it build workers/settlers makes the most sense, but I figure you probably have the best spots we need to race for at the moment/that city isn't near the spots I want to settle next anyhow. Would you want it for settling to your east?

Any settlers/workers you can build for me would be extremely useful. Putting my capital in GP mode means I have very limited means of building workers/settlers myself, and the other teams have certainly be doing more unit gifting then we have. The jungle spot to my south is probably most important right now, but if Iron turns out to be in a inconvenient spot like horses, perhaps that would be a higher priority?

[Shoot the Moon]

Alright, settlers it is.

Not so sold on the courthouses though. My highest maintenance city is still only 4gpt. That's a large investment for only 2gpt at this point in the game.

[WarriorKnight]

Not so sold on the courthouses though. My highest maintenance city is still only 4gpt. That's a large investment for only 2gpt at this point in the game.

Well yeah I agree with you on that, but it's a newly planted size 1 city right now and your going to build a Granary first like you should. By the time you've built the granary and grown large enough to complete (whip) a courthouse in the first place, it'll be costing more then that right? What else would you build instead after a granary and a forge? (since I forgot your IND and all)

[Shoot the Moon]

Not so sold on the courthouses though. My highest maintenance city is still only 4gpt. That's a large investment for only 2gpt at this point in the game.

Well yeah I agree with you on that, but it's a newly planted size 1 city right now and your going to build a Granary first like you should. By the time you've built the granary and grown large enough to complete (whip) a courthouse in the first place, it'll be costing more then that right? What else would you build instead after a granary and a forge? (since I forgot your IND and all)

Workers, settlers, units (I am bordering rome after all), libraries, even maybe a wonder if we want one, missionaries eventually. Hard to say that far off at this point I'd say. As I keep expanding courthouses will obviously be important just don't see the need quite yet.

[WarriorKnight]

Not so sold on the courthouses though. My highest maintenance city is still only 4gpt. That's a large investment for only 2gpt at this point in the game.

Well yeah I agree with you on that, but it's a newly planted size 1 city right now and your going to build a Granary first like you should. By the time you've built the granary and grown large enough to complete (whip) a courthouse in the first place, it'll be costing more then that right? What else would you build instead after a granary and a forge? (since I forgot your IND and all)

Workers, settlers, units (I am bordering rome after all), libraries, even maybe a wonder if we want one, missionaries eventually. Hard to say that far off at this point I'd say. As I keep expanding courthouses will obviously be important just don't see the need quite yet.

For a new city I'd certainly consider the library, since like a courthouses it's an economic building, but everything else is done better in a more built up city, at least until the economic buildings are complete unless something else is really needed. (such as military if the city is under threat, but obviously you shouldn't be building economic buildings in that situation)

In fact, I don't see why a courthouse is so different from a Library, except that it's less dependent on the terrain surrounding it. Like a Library, it's certainly not something you want to build before a granary and a IND forge. But after those buildings it only 5 hammers short of a 3 pop whip, by the time you reach that point it is reasonably affordable. Also by that point maintenance will have increased due to increased city pop & maybe other new cities, making a courthouse more necessary. Saved gold -> Earned gold -> more research.

I'm curious, at what maintenance do you think Courthouses are worthwhile?

[Shoot the Moon]

Not so sold on the courthouses though. My highest maintenance city is still only 4gpt. That's a large investment for only 2gpt at this point in the game.

Well yeah I agree with you on that, but it's a newly planted size 1 city right now and your going to build a Granary first like you should. By the time you've built the granary and grown large enough to complete (whip) a courthouse in the first place, it'll be costing more then that right? What else would you build instead after a granary and a forge? (since I forgot your IND and all)

Workers, settlers, units (I am bordering rome after all), libraries, even maybe a wonder if we want one, missionaries eventually. Hard to say that far off at this point I'd say. As I keep expanding courthouses will obviously be important just don't see the need quite yet.

For a new city I'd certainly consider the library, since like a courthouses it's an economic building, but everything else is done better in a more built up city, at least until the economic buildings are complete unless something else is really needed. (such as military if the city is under threat, but obviously you shouldn't be building economic buildings in that situation)

In fact, I don't see why a courthouse is so different from a Library, except that it's less dependent on the terrain surrounding it. Like a Library, it's certainly not something you want to build before a granary and a IND forge. But after those buildings it only 5 hammers short of a 3 pop whip, by the time you reach that point it is reasonably affordable. Also by that point maintenance will have increased due to increased city pop & maybe other new cities, making a courthouse more necessary. Saved gold -> Earned gold -> more research.

I'm curious, at what maintenance do you think Courthouses are worthwhile?

Non-org, my general gut feel is generally when you're at 7-8gpt maintenance, and even at that point it is sometimes more of a "nice to fit in at some point" type thing. Before that, unless you're on a really hammer rich setup, I find it usually hard to justify 80 hammers for only 2-3 gpt. It's not that I think courthouses are bad necessarily, just that they are really expensive for how early they come in the tech tree and thus that there are usually things that will pay back sooner or more efficiently.

[WarriorKnight]

Well I guess we just disagree there. I'd say build it maybe at 5gpt and definitely at 6got. Anyway, we don't need them right at this moment regardless, and I can probably give you another 5-8gpt the turn after next for now anyway.

HAK moved a dog/spear pair into my vision, right next to my planned 6th city site. It won't be easy to kill them pre-cats as I don't have enough units, but I should shortly. Construction would make it easier to deal with these threats, so it's a candidate to tech post-Mono (other options are Calendar, Lit, Alpha and Guilds beeline, IMO).

Also MoM isn't built yet, strangely enough. Looking at eta's, I actually think we might have got it if we went there straight after Currency. If someone is building it though, then they should be getting it any turn now, right?

[WarriorKnight]

Shoot, if we go IW -> Poly/Mono, do you want a missionary anywhere for a border pop? I ask since you can't switch to OR easily whereas I can (and should probably wait for a double revolt), and I can get border pops easily enough via Caste artists, whereas I don't think you have a easy method of popping borders just yet.

Also, what do you think we should tech after Mono?

[WarriorKnight]

Just realised I never did a t50 overview. Ah well, mini t65 situation:



In terms of pop, it's still a very close race. Smack is only barely over average, and they are the leaders. Food is somewhat similar, except that Darius is making up for Joao's lack of food and Seven is getting a lead over the majority of the pack. (Course, this was after I ended turn and got 3 pop, but it's still a close race)

GNP is a better comparison of where everyone is:



You can see Seven's dominance in this category, and Leewyn's boosting of Commodore is starting to show here too (Commodore is Darius and Joao is Leewyn from now on). Shoot is 3rd, but I'm probably the only supporting team member that is making a significant contribution on the research front, and I'm easily the highest in GNP out of the supporter's, so we also remain competitive for now.

4H are clearly in trouble, my earlier prediction about them falling behind in GNP is coming true, and the graphs clearly show they have major work to do in GNP, if they can dig themselves out at all. The pop they got from HG isn't really showing, as everyone is almost neck and neck there. I still recommend we beeline Guilds and invade them with a bunch of Knights sometime within the next 20-30t, as they won't be getting pikes anytime some to counter them. We don't really know anything about their territory though, perhaps it's worth researching Alphabet and build some Spies to scout their land out before then?

The rest of us are fairly even. LAM and Smack have been in some serious combat, while we still have minimal military. Smack probably have the lead somewhat, but LAM have a better snowball leader picks. Then there's us, having Rep teching ability and the only IND civ in contention, with also a almost unused SPI trait so far compared to the EXP of the other teams. Honestly, I don't know where to place us in relation to the other two. But if we can take some of 4H then we are sure to remain competitive.

Thoughts?

[Shoot the Moon]

Shoot, if we go IW -> Poly/Mono, do you want a missionary anywhere for a border pop? I ask since you can't switch to OR easily whereas I can (and should probably wait for a double revolt), and I can get border pops easily enough via Caste artists, whereas I don't think you have a easy method of popping borders just yet.

Also, what do you think we should tech after Mono?

Yeah, I could actually use two. One for AccordionPlayer and the other for my city by the furs (forgetting the name, but being able to hook up another happiness would be useful as my capital is approaching the cap already).

After Mono I'd say either CS or push toward guilds. What were you thinking of though?