Diplomacy Master Thread- Helping Your Opponents Beat Themselves

[Sisu]

Seven's draft manages to be honest without being dismissive. I think it's the best idea floated so far.

[darrelljs]

I like 7s points except they are phrased as if we assume we'll be kicking ass and they won't, e.g. re-word 1) as "Neither team shall race for cities in the other's land split." I'd also add a 1.5) "Neither team shall be forced to halt an offensive until they are bordering their ally".

Darrell

[Ceiliazul]

+1 Seven's tone and honesty. If we can trim it a bit, looks good.

+1 Darrell's point about neutral wording, but in a friendlier tone. (leave the 'shall' games to CFC.)

[darrelljs]

+1 to Ceil's point about a friendlier tone .

Darrell

[SevenSpirits]

I like 7s points except they are phrased as if we assume we'll be kicking ass and they won't, e.g. re-word 1) as "Neither team shall race for cities in the other's land split." I'd also add a 1.5) "Neither team shall be forced to halt an offensive until they are bordering their ally".

Darrell

My thinking it wording it as "we will do this thing for you..." preceded by "we'll do these for you if you do the same for us" was to put it more in the realm of friendship/personal promise rather than a formal diplomatic deal. I believe the personal promise route comes off as more sincere and trustworthy given the vague wording (and btw I would certainly hope that we honor it!). I also think it's harder to haggle details of a personal promise - it just feels ungrateful to do that. (I realize "personal promise" and "diplomatic deal" aren't well-defined categories, but maybe you can get my drift.)

I agree that if it will come across as us expecting to get the majority of the spoils that's not ideal. But just so we are on the same page, those are the reasons I structured it like I did.

[kjn]

Yeah, Seven's draft looks good. I'd even be willing to help them reduce the defenders in German cities, provided they can bring a credible force to take it (eg, if a German city is defended by a spear and an axe, and they have two chariots nearby, I'd be happy if we sent in a knight to help out once we've taken "our" cities).

But they will need to bring a credible force in the first place. Otherwise it's the firstest with the mostest.

[regoarrarr]

I like Seven's thoughts as well - the only thing I might change was the words of half (since that implies 50/50) to something like your part. I'm still leery of agreeing to anything like a 50/50 split

[sooooo]

I really like sevenspirit's tone of voice too. It's a very tricky subject this, trying to be honest but trying to keep them on board and keep our friendly relations.

I've tried to expand on his message:

Hi Beta,

Thanks for your message and confirmation of the T150 joint declaration. Our team has been discussing your land split idea over the past few days and we'd like to convey our opinions as honestly as possible. We don't want this war to spoil our good relations. Be warned, the next few paragraphs may come across a little blunt .

We are OK with that division in principle, with the caveat that it can only happen if you earn your part through combat. We don't think it would be fair for one of us to get half the spoils while contributing much less to the war effort, and perhaps more importantly, city gifting isn't allowed in this game. What we're concerned with is this situation: We capture the cities in our half of the land split relatively easily due to our technological and numbers advantage over the German team (we're number 1 in power by a large margin). But then we have to wait for your civ to take all of the central cities, which may well be a long slog if you are on technological parity. Sorry if that comes across as patronising, and it's just one possibility for the outcome, not an assured one by any means. But I'm sure you'll admit it's possible. In such a situation, we would want to take more than six german cities and would feel justified in doing so.

Wars are a big pain and we will be aiming to defeat the germans as soon as possible. But we can promise a few things if you do the same for us:
1) We won't race you for the cities in your half of the land split.
2) We will prioritize capture of cities in our half over cities in your half.
3) We will be sincerely rooting for your speedy progress and success.
4) After the war, we will consider seriously any complaints you have about fairness, and be willing to provide fair compensation in the form of gold, units, and/or resources.

In summary, we're proposing a cross between your even split and the "race for Berlin" scenario. We each aim to capture "our" six cities first, according to the even split. If one of us does that significantly before the other, then that team is allowed to go after other cities, as long as the other team is not obviously besieging that city. We will both agree to do this in good faith and keep the other team updated on how they are progressing and which city they are going after next.

Please let us know your thoughts,
Team RealmsBeyond.

[DaveV]

I'd suggest adding something like the following:

It's hard for me to emphasize enough how important it is to my team to finish this war (and the Germans) quickly. Most of our preparations have been geared toward having a quick, decisive war. As long as this war drags on, we will suffer from war weariness and be vulnerable to a backstab by one of the other teams.

[Ceiliazul]

All valiant efforts, but none of them beat Seven's for sincere tone or brevity.