WW24: The Ashes of Brigdarrow: VILLAGE WINS

[Jkaen]

And and after the read through, I don't like any of the reasons Rowain gave for his votes yesterday, so moving there

[Gazglum]

I have a bad feeling about Gazglum. His comments attempting to console Brick yesterday felt rather forced, like a wolf who was trying a little too hard to blend in with the village. He's relatively quick to post after the deadline, questioning what (to me) feels like obvious flavour text.

Voting to lynch somoene on Day 1 who hasn't voted and who gives us no information and who might still return to the game is weak. Lynching Tasunke was worse than lynching Brick for this reason.

I agree, and I think that Tasunke offered a very attractive target for the wolves to park their vote at the end of the day and merge into the crowd. I think we can still glean some info out of the end of day 1 shenaningans based on that.

Here he pushes the theory that scum are amongst those voting to kill deadweight Tasunke. However, it's in scum's best interests to keep a complete deadweight townie in the game. Late during day 1, he also proposed replacing, modkilling or vigkilling him, the latter two clearly benefitting scum (free townie kill).


Other posts by him I don't particularly like...
Post 147 - Chastises Serdoa slightly for his attacks on me, but completely sits on the fence regarding anyone's alignment.
Post 109 - Again, more sitting on the fence. States he doesn't like the pressure on Brick, but keeps his vote on Brick. Accuses Zak of overthinking, then says people posting aren't scummy, while people who aren't posting aren't scummy either.

Welcome to the Glumwagon Azza, we'll be rolling on through the night.

I don't have a lot of time tonight before bed, but briefly.

1. Lots of people have said consoling Brick was wolfish, I say it was a null tell. I try to be nice in these games. In my frsit game I remember apologising to Gaius_Marius even as I led the mislynch charge against him. I thought Brick's scumminess was far from certain, and I felt bad for him if he was innocent.

I agree that I would act like that as scum. But I also try to be like that as town.

2. I just disagree with you about the Tasunke kill. Sure, a village Tasunke could be a deadweigh to the town. But by jumping onto him, scum would have been able to mask their votes. There was a lot of back and forth about Brick, and for a long time there were votes evenly spread on him and others. Whatever his alignment, scum had to be cautious about where to place their votes because of how their behaviour could be inferred afterwards.

But with Tasunke, scum could all just jump on the policy lynch bandwagon, and not have to explain their suspicions. Now everyone can just be, "sucks we were wrong, but Tasunke kind of deserved it," which is true, and so the scum don't have to answer for their actions.

ALso, I wanted Tasunke replaced first and foremost. And yes, then a vig kill second, because a vigilante has to kill someone, and I think he would be as good a target as we were likely to get. I think lynching Brick and vigging Tasunke would have told us more than doing the other way around, for example.

3. Fencesitting

I fencesat a bit because I didn't think anybody was super scummy Day 1. I'm not totally without opinions though. I'll probably be able to give a clearer list tomorrow after rereading but,

SCUMMY

Brick - strong emotion swings, bad case on Lewwyn, disappearing once the heat came on, oddly waiting to place his survival vote on Tasunke

Azza - I had you marked as scummier before Azza, because I thought Serdoa made an interesting case against you, and you weren't scumhunting enough. You've just done a proper 'hunt' against me, though, so I give you town points for trying at least. Still mistrust you, but after last game I'm aware I may be bad at reading you.

Jkaen: Mildly scummy, perhaps. Low profile in Day 1 (though he did say he would be busy), and then keeps busy now with meta/maths stuff, and I don't think his arguments are great. I mean, yes, we could have lots of doctors and they could be protecting novice, etc, but it's not as likely as he made it sound.

TOWN

Zak - if he's scum, he's totally fooled me. And I like to think I can sniff out Bad Zak.

Serdoa - Had him pegged as fully town, slightly less after his NOvic-Azza theory, but still think he's townish.

Everyone else I have to think about for now. I want to read more from Mattimeo. I want to read more from Ichabod too, but that's because Ichabod makes me laugh.

Goodnight. See you in the morning all.

[Gazglum]

Brick_Astley, for now.

[Jkaen]

Thought everybody knew this by now, but I am always pretty silent on weekends and much chattier during the week, so I would have no need to artificially look busier now to compensate for yesterday.

I do believe rowains voting track, and more to the point the reasons he gives for each of those is suspicious though

[Rowain]

Look Ma a Jkaen :

Also finding it weird that Rowain (who I have traditionally as one of the more likely to lock onto a single target and chase it to the ground)

Really? I'm sure if you bother to look throught the games you will find that I have switched targets quite often especially close to DL.

started on Azza, switched to brick to open up an alternate (for no real reason that to follow zak/novice) but then when we did have those 2 established jumped to Gazglum for again little reason

No I have not started on Azza. Not even my first vote was on him in short I have not voted Azza at all . To help you fabricate another string of accusations so that you look active and scumhunting: I voted SC then BRick followed by Gaz and finally Tasunke. And today I'm currently back to Gazglum.

[Lewwyn]

@Lewwyn

Would you let us know whom of the 7 voters for Tasunke you would not have voted for? Or rather was novice on of those you would have?

I was considering not saying, but I don't think there's any harm in saying I guess. I would have voted for novice. I thought he was being a bit dodgy. But then if he was the Cop that makes sense. I've always had a knack for picking inconsistencies and villagers with power roles play like scum half the time. Come to think of it, if Brick is innocent he's probably a power role.

No the one I wasn't going to vote for would have been you Serdoa. Reading straight villager on you.

I could be convinced to lynch Azza.

[Serdoa]

Serdoa,

You seemed focussed on Azza being scum yesterday, I am surprised you now follow him onto Gazglum, who I think has been fairly villagerish so far, can you point out what you are seeing please?

I'm still not certain on Azza, but novice coming up town did give his points in my mind more weight as at least I can be sure that he was not trying to fool me. He did understand Azzas intro as joke and my suspicion that he might have faked the posts which led to Azza explaining why he made this first post and especially why he made his self-vote is obviously wrong, no matter how clumsy they were written. So, I have put Azza back in my neutral camp after that revelation.

Gazglum on the other hand made some scummy posts yesterday which were pointed out already. He also started the game, after a joke vote, with:

But while we're kicking the quiet ones, I'll give Novice a poke. Two posts so far, his first a jokey revenge+block vote post against Brick, which is fine. But his second post, now into 'real discussion' part of the game, kept that vote without any further analysis. Why do you think Brick is the best vote right now Novice?

In retrospect that seems like an odd post to me. Not only because we know he targeted a villager, but also because he questioned novice on his BRick-vote, just to turn around a little bit later and vote in his next post for BRick himself because "he is a better target than novice". And that was followed up afterwards with the post that basically told BRick to shut up and don't defend himself.

Now, that might be me, but I am normally pushing for my case and if I have the one I suspect most available to me, I try to question him and get answers to what I found to be odd behaviour. I don't see Gazglum doing that. Actually I don't see him pointing out odd behaviour in the first place. He just concluded that BRick is a better target than novice and that's the reason for his vote. And when we go back and look what the others had as reasons to vote BRick, it was a first vote by zak for "Brick looking extremely scummy" (on page 1 of the thread, so a joke I'd say) and novice, following zak on BRick because "that's what I always do"-first post votes are just lame in his opinion. Finally the last vote being Rowain, so that someone else besides Azza is in the running.

So, Gazglum was on BRick for NO reason at all except that he is easier to lynch than novice (nothing else does that "he is a better target than novice" mean). When you go back and read those posts, you feel like there is some case built around it (I did believe that yesterday too) but at least at that point in the game, there was no case at all imo.

In his next post Gazglum than points out that he agrees that the BRick-case is weak (there is none, just saying...) to follow that in the SAME post with

I think Brick is the best of a bad lot of cases at the moment

and he kept his vote there. Still no sign from him to actually hunt wolves. I think he was happy to keep his vote on BRick so he had not to think about other cases or look himself for wolves. Next post he answers to novice who found his interaction with BRick odd, especially the part in which he tried to shut up BRick. And part of Gazglums answer is:

and like Rowain, I wanted to look at other cases as well, because I wasn't sold on Brick.

Are you kidding me? The whole first day I can't see any sign that Gazglum did look at any case. Not even the one he was voting with.

Quite honestly, I found the points that other pointed out about Gazglum already good enough to vote for him (and that was the reason I did in the first place). But going over his D1-play, I really don't find anything helping his case. He did not once hunt, he did not look at other cases, he just tried to push BRick to the gallows. I'm fine with my vote where it is:

Gazglum

[Jkaen]

Look Ma a Jkaen :

Also finding it weird that Rowain (who I have traditionally as one of the more likely to lock onto a single target and chase it to the ground)

Really? I'm sure if you bother to look throught the games you will find that I have switched targets quite often especially close to DL.

started on Azza, switched to brick to open up an alternate (for no real reason that to follow zak/novice) but then when we did have those 2 established jumped to Gazglum for again little reason

No I have not started on Azza. Not even my first vote was on him in short I have not voted Azza at all . To help you fabricate another string of accusations so that you look active and scumhunting: I voted SC then BRick followed by Gaz and finally Tasunke. And today I'm currently back to Gazglum.

Ok, my crappy attention to detail strikes again. I got the first vote wrong.

That look active allegation is rubbish, but it feels like you try to use it each game against me.

Case still is you switched alot yesterday for very weak reasons

[slowcheetah]

Anybody else interested in applying some pressure to Ichabod? My reasoning reamains the same as the day before;

I like Ichabod as scum, almost wholly because of this post:

Well, when Slowcheetah reveals as a wolf we can discuss if it was contrived or not.

And Wolfabod will do what's best to take Zak, the hunter, out of his feet:

BRickAstley

He's trying to bribe the cops, but is letting the village know that he's bribing the cops so he seems more innocent. In my opinion this post when added to the contrived nature of his earlier arguments against myself (brought up by Zak and Novice), leads to a good bet at a wolf.

Ichabod is the most likely wolf for me.

Ichabod

[slowcheetah]

And and after the read through, I don't like any of the reasons Rowain gave for his votes yesterday, so moving there

What specifically didn't you like about Rowains reasons Jkaen? I just did a quick reread of his posts and it felt to me as if he was probing for answers.