WW24: The Ashes of Brigdarrow: VILLAGE WINS

[Rowain]

What changed from this point for you to suspect Serdoa?

"Rather look townish" is not a free pass. It is a feeling of the moment and it can change.

Look at my post shortly before my vote for Serdoa ( 1 und 2 ) . I was running down the list of possible scummies. When I reached Serdoa I remembered WW17 and his townish play then. Checking that game showed me that it was possible him being scum. I also found the post were he "moaned" his successful attack on Mattimeo.
Additional (and that is the very small hint I spoke about) the novice-kill would make sense with Serdoa who loves risky play. I confess now that he flipped SK I have no idea if he was responsible for the kill or not.

Another candidate for me was Ichabod but for me Ichabod as scum made only sense if he were the SK and since we had only 1 NK I dismissed the idea of an SK.

[Rowain]

I also think it was way too big of a gamble for the two of you to take with no real evidence, hence very tempted to vote there tomorrow

In short you believe that it was a far to big gamble for a villager but believe that it was the right move for 2( since you insinuate that we are both in it) scum to make? You do surprise me really.


@Lewwyn the same you believe that the Serdoa kill was scum hunting for the SK? Do you see anything o that in zaks action yesterday? Do you believe we are both scum who have happily voted together in a very obvious way when as scum we could happily reap the easy lynch of BRick not draw any suspicion and easily kill Serdoa during the night? I have a serious problem with you insisting on that.

BTW what is your stance on slowcheetah today?

[Rowain]

One last one for now:

If there are 3 mafiosi we have exactly 1 mislynch left (otherwise 2) so we better make that count.



Concerning Ichabod GG and RIP. Getting thrown in a dungheap and that an hour early is not nice .

[Mattimeo]

Plus, you know, I could just kill you and THEN refute your arguments, eliminating the risk of any pesky retorts.

Nice job setting yourself up for immediate suspicion when Ichabod ended up dead. Additional suspicion, I suppose, since there seems like there was already a fair amount.
Probably too WIFOM to work out if it was a defensive kill, or a frame job, but I'd tend towards the latter.

and Mattimeo happily buying the "he was mafia hunting SK" premise

I what now?

Jkaen

[Ichabod]

You killed me!!!

GG

[zakalwe]

and Mattimeo happily buying the "he was mafia hunting SK" premise

I what now?

That was my impression. You were siding with Lewwyn in post #355 when you said that scum would celebrate the SK's death more than town would celebrate it. And that was right after he launched the "mafia was hunting for SK" theory.

But if you're saying that you didn't buy it, I'll take it back.

[slowcheetah]

Ok catch up time;

Ichabod is town??? Oops, sorry fella. Serdoa is evil. I didn't call that either. Having said that the village was spread out like a day one vote, so I guess everyone is finding it hard to get a footing.

Initial thoughts-
How the hell did Serdoa get lynched? Why can Zak and Rowain read each others minds? Wolves, masons, wolves pretending to be masons?.

To Zak;

*In fact, this may be a good lead to hunt for mafia: go through the people who listed Serdoa as innocent and see who may have been a little quick to do so. Of course, you are on that list, Lewwyn, but I'm not saying this to frame you, as I don't think you are scum.

I'm feeling pretty dense here, but why is this?


Why did you suddenly trust BRick Zak? Your impressions of BRick's long post:

Ok, I finished reading through that.

First impression: Lots of text, but not a very strong case.

Actually same question to you; Rowain, Lewwyn, why did Brick suddenly seem so villagery? There's obviously something there if every experienced player is getting the vibe, but I'm just not seeing it?

Rowain announced his suspicion of Serdoa. Zak then jumped on the wagon. It all happened very fast, I can only see a lynch shaking out like this if:
a) Both wolves
b) Zak has launched a very ballsy play (I haven't played with wolf Zak, is that his normal repertoire)
c) Masons.

Lynching Zak would IMO probably clear Rowain.

Sorry about the stream of consciousness, it's been a busy day and I've left myself a big chunk to read through. Need to think about what Ichabods death means.

[zakalwe]

Lynching Zak would IMO probably clear Rowain.

What do you mean by this? Would it clear him regardless of my alignment? In that case, you can just go ahead and clear him.

The idea behind finding mafia who were eager to clear Serdoa is that they would just view him as a hard-to-lynch townie, and a high priority night kill. In other words, no need to antagonize him, and may as well get on his good side by clearing him. (Plus, you generally want to throw out some town reads to sound townish anyway, and it hurts you less to clear people who you can't lynch.)

I'm not ready to clear Brick, but I was certainly having doubts about him yesterday. I was having some doubts on day 1, too, for that matter, which is why I eventually voted for Tasunke. Anyway, I didn't think his case on Azza was very good - it was a big effort, but still not very compelling. But then Gazglum pointed out the abrupt change in Azza's stance on Gazglum, and also defended Brick a bit, which made me reconsider. At that point, I was on the verge of voting for Azza, but then he came on-line and defended well. So I went back to Brick, as the "best mislynch". That would at least give us closure on that chapter so we could move on. But then Rowain showed up and suggested Serdoa, and I decided to go with that instead.

But no, I don't trust Brick, even if I didn't lynch him yesterday.

[zakalwe]

I still think Gazglum is suspicious, and I don't like his "you must be a power role" angle. That just feels like an intermediate step in a process to reverse his stance on me. Like he is maneuvering to give himself more options.

Slowcheetah's post above is also less convincing than before. I'm not sure it's such a stream of consciousness as he's making it out to be. Looks a bit like he's trying to steer the conversation to a certain set of topics. He wants us to talk about me, Rowain, and Brick.

Mattimeo, I think I see why you are voting for Jkaen, but you haven't actually articulated your case very well. Perhaps you should spell it out for him (and us).

[slowcheetah]

Lynching Zak would IMO probably clear Rowain.

What do you mean by this? Would it clear him regardless of my alignment? In that case, you can just go ahead and clear him.

I worded this badly, I meant if you were a villager then Rowain would be pretty much cleared in my eyes. I just can't see a wolf suddenly deciding to lynch Serdoa without backup so close to deadline.

The idea behind finding mafia who were eager to clear Serdoa is that they would just view him as a hard-to-lynch townie, and a high priority night kill. In other words, no need to antagonize him, and may as well get on his good side by clearing him. (Plus, you generally want to throw out some town reads to sound townish anyway, and it hurts you less to clear people who you can't lynch.)

Makes sense. I feel dumb now

I'm not ready to clear Brick, but I was certainly having doubts about him yesterday. I was having some doubts on day 1, too, for that matter, which is why I eventually voted for Tasunke. Anyway, I didn't think his case on Azza was very good - it was a big effort, but still not very compelling. But then Gazglum pointed out the abrupt change in Azza's stance on Gazglum, and also defended Brick a bit, which made me reconsider. At that point, I was on the verge of voting for Azza, but then he came on-line and defended well. So I went back to Brick, as the "best mislynch". That would at least give us closure on that chapter so we could move on. But then Rowain showed up and suggested Serdoa, and I decided to go with that instead.

But no, I don't trust Brick, even if I didn't lynch him yesterday.

Sounds like you went with gut feel at least on the lynch decision then.

Slowcheetah's post above is also less convincing than before. I'm not sure it's such a stream of consciousness as he's making it out to be. Looks a bit like he's trying to steer the conversation to a certain set of topics. He wants us to talk about me, Rowain, and Brick.

Barring Azza, you three are the big deal surrounding the lynch. Which is all I've read beyons a quick skim. I need to apply some focus to Azza, but frankly the meat of the arguments are really long and I haven't had time yet.