WW24: The Ashes of Brigdarrow: VILLAGE WINS

[Gazglum]

Sorry Rowain, I just missed it in the read-through. Thankyou for the clarification.

[Mattimeo]

You certainyl didn't give Brick a free pass, but I feel like this is much less suspicion than you showed to Azza.

Actual suspicion levels were somewhat similar, apologies if that was not made clear enough for you.

You were on around lynch,

I was around half an hour before lynch, when it was 4-2 BRick and my vote wasn't going to make a difference, and 5 minutes after, when Serdoa was dead. Your point?

and it became clear that Jkaen was not in the running to hang.

That's not stopped me from leaving it in place before, when I consider it a foregone conclusion or I haven't been strongly swayed by the innocence of one person on the block to try to keep them alive. Any particular reason why it should suddenly become a compelling reason to switch now?

I know you said that you weren't feeling the other cases, but your vote would still have swung things.

Can only say it would have swung things in hindsight, and in hindsight, my vote would have made it a 50/50 coin flip between Azza and who we now know to be the Serial Killer. Not exactly likely to make me feel guilty that my inaction caused a threat to the town to be lynched...

Brick what was that? Why are you so useless. You haven't posted any votes. You haven't posted any postions. Did I make a mistake are you still scum?

...and with the start of a new day, we're back to Lewwyn constantly putting pressure on BRick. Remind you of anything, zak?

[Jkaen]

Why are you voting for me, Jkaen?

Mainly because of the last minute Serdoa vote. You didnt feel Brick was scummy - fair enough. but then it seems you decided with no real scum tells at all to take out one of our strongest players. The fact you hit the SK is not relevant to me in this as I dont recall you saying you were voting him because of that. If you are village you got lucky with the result, but I think it was a stupid gamble to take that you wouldnt normally do. As a scum zak it also speeds up your elimination of strong players.

Also I gave Azza scum tells for an early day 1 post 'to get people talking' that didnt get them looking for scum, while you with your alphabetical list did something similar and escaped comment.

Also oddly the fact that it was only you that got behind my suspicions on Rowain at all rings a bit of a warning bell for me, especially as super persuasive zak got behind them in such a way that nobody else was persuaded to follow.

I also think it was way too big of a gamble for the two of you to take with no real evidence, hence very tempted to vote there tomorrow

In short you believe that it was a far to big gamble for a villager but believe that it was the right move for 2( since you insinuate that we are both in it) scum to make? You do surprise me really.

Rowain, it would be nice if you didnt put words into my mouth constantly. Although lets address that first, you are putting forward the 'scum would never do this argument' and others have already suggested that if zak is guilty it clears you (i think thats what the argument was), hence that approach seems to work.

However equally likely is that one of you is scum, and the other isnt. For example village you could have thrown forward that as another option or talking point and scum zak could have latched onto the chance to follow you

Plus, you know, I could just kill you and THEN refute your arguments, eliminating the risk of any pesky retorts.

Nice job setting yourself up for immediate suspicion when Ichabod ended up dead. Additional suspicion, I suppose, since there seems like there was already a fair amount.
Probably too WIFOM to work out if it was a defensive kill, or a frame job, but I'd tend towards the latter.

and Mattimeo happily buying the "he was mafia hunting SK" premise

I what now?

Jkaen

Dont quite understand this, but you are voting for me because I was right that there is probably a doctor in this game, how on earth does that make me scum?

[zakalwe]

Brick what was that? Why are you so useless. You haven't posted any votes. You haven't posted any postions. Did I make a mistake are you still scum?

...and with the start of a new day, we're back to Lewwyn constantly putting pressure on BRick. Remind you of anything, zak?

Yeah, that comment by Lewwyn didn't sit well with me either. Brick and Lewwyn as a scum pair is my immediate tinfoil reaction.

I've been considering revenge voting Lewwyn anyway. He keeps coming back with a new reason to suspect me in every post, without challenging my dismissal of his previous reason.

That said, I have only skimmed, so I won't move my vote just yet. We also need a tally.

[zakalwe]

I did summarise a general dislike of his play yesterday, but a good deal of suspicion comes from an assumption that Serdoa was behind the novice kill on N1. Suddenly, Jkaens immediately Doctor paranoia started to make (any amount of) sense.

My own take on Jkaen: there is a logical inconsistency in that he thought killing Novice would be highly risky due to all the potential doctors, saw evidence that Novice was in fact not protected, but still concluded that one night kill implied no SK. I thought maybe this was specifically what you were getting at, although your case has a bit more to it, apparently. In any case, I feel this particular inconsistency is a bit too technical to hang him on.

[Azza]

My gut says Rowain is scum, but I can't find any good evidence to back up my gut feeling.

And how does that fit with the easy mislynch? And why do think that scum Rowain can move villager zak (that would be the setup in your assumption) to follow him? If anything I would rather say zak as scum makes sense in that scenario.

It was an opportunity to potentially knock out someone big who would be unable to defend against it. You put the name out, see if anyone bites, knowing who was online at the time and therefore more likely to change a vote.

If i had some actual evidence proving it was you, id post that. But my gut says it's you, so Im going to stick with that for now.

[zakalwe]

Gazglum is right that Mattimeo's reluctance to cast a vote that counts is anti-townish. (I say -ish because there was still a theoretical chance that the vote could swing back to Jkaen.) I think it's also in character for Mattimeo, so it doesn't count as much of a scum tell. Ichabod's point about Mattimeo not gaining more traction yesterday is still valid. So it's reasonable to suspect Mattimeo, but I also disagree with Slowcheetah - based on his content I think it's also very reasonable to have a town lean on Mattimeo. I'm in the latter camp currently.

Your discussion got a little heated there for a while, only for you guys to join forces at the end. Had you completely come around to Rowain as town by the end of the day? What do you think about him now?

That's not a heated discussion. Anyway, towards the end of the day I felt alright about voting with him. Though I'd like to say that I evaluated the case, and not the person making it.

Right now I feel pretty good about him being innocent. He could have gone after me instead, if he just wanted to mislynch a strong player. If he had voted for me instead of Serdoa, it would just take one more vote to lynch me.

[zakalwe]

The fact you hit the SK is not relevant to me in this as I dont recall you saying you were voting him because of that.

I was voting for him because I thought he could be scum. And he was. Why would I declare that I thought he was a SK? There may be some differences between playing as SK and playing as mafia, but that doesn't mean you can't catch them by the same methods. Particularly when the method is to eliminate likely villagers and see who is left.

Also I gave Azza scum tells for an early day 1 post 'to get people talking' that didnt get them looking for scum, while you with your alphabetical list did something similar and escaped comment.

So are you saying my alphabetical list is a scum tell? You're kind of beating around the bush here. Do you still think Azza's miller claim and self-vote is a scum tell?

Also oddly the fact that it was only you that got behind my suspicions on Rowain at all rings a bit of a warning bell for me, especially as super persuasive zak got behind them in such a way that nobody else was persuaded to follow.

This seems to imply that Rowain is scum, if anything. Or are you saying I used my powers of persuasion to "kill" the case on him? If so, how?

[zakalwe]

Barring Azza, you three are the big deal surrounding the lynch. Which is all I've read beyons a quick skim. I need to apply some focus to Azza, but frankly the meat of the arguments are really long and I haven't had time yet.

18 minutes later...

I looked at the case for Azza, and I actually quite like it.

Why did you have to look specifically at Azza? I don't get it.

Slowcheetah

[zakalwe]

Votes:

Gazglum

Zakalwe

Zakalwe

Rowain

Jkaen

Azza

MATTIMEO

Slowcheetah

Tally:
Zakalwe (2) - Lewwyn, Jkaen
Rowain (1) - Azza
Mattimeo (1) - Gazglum
Azza (1) - Slowcheetah
Jkaen (1) - Mattimeo
Slowcheetah (1) - Zakalwe

Not voting (2) - Rowain, Brick