1) we should what we can to help asking notbing in return. Great opportunity here
2) offer a gold gift? Maybe 100 or so?
3) we should offer that they can trade mission to us for free. They may not do it, but worth offering to be nice
4) messages to them should be simple and to the point. They aren't native speakers and they are MP guys who probably aren't used to diplo.
...Goddang, what a stupid and asinine move by CFC. Cultivating civ.fr should be a top priority, after making sure that they are telling the truth, of course.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
TINFIOL HAT THEORY OF THE DAY Wrote:No sign of actual fighting or WW from the aptmod website or in game. Something is still fishy.
Even sommer's NAP terms don't cover GM trade missions, and we have evidence they are using them for everyone (and pissing people off) so either:
CFC broke a NAP
CivFR is not telling the truth
CFC failed to cover their asses and get a NAP with the 3rd strongest power before they invaded someone
Ask CivFR and CFC if they had a NAP in place prior to the war. Either way it will be interesting information. And of course confirmation of CFC breaking a GM trade mission agreement one way or another would be useful diplomatically.
I thought that civ.fr was just really reluctant to sign NAPs in general.
Merovech's Mapmaking Guidelines:
0. Player Requests: The player's requests take precedence, even if they contradict the following guidelines.
1. Balance: The map must be balanced, both in regards to land quality and availability and in regards to special civilization features. A map may be wonderfully unique and surprising, but, if it is unbalanced, the game will suffer and the player's enjoyment will not be as high as it could be.
2. Identity and Enjoyment: The map should be interesting to play at all levels, from city placement and management to the border-created interactions between civilizations, and should include varied terrain. Flavor should enhance the inherent pleasure resulting from the underlying tile arrangements. The map should not be exceedingly lush, but it is better to err on the lush side than on the poor side when placing terrain.
3. Feel (Avoiding Gimmicks): The map should not be overwhelmed or dominated by the mapmaker's flavor. Embellishment of the map through the use of special improvements, barbarian units, and abnormal terrain can enhance the identity and enjoyment of the map, but should take a backseat to the more normal aspects of the map. The game should usually not revolve around the flavor, but merely be accented by it.
4. Realism: Where possible, the terrain of the map should be realistic. Jungles on desert tiles, or even next to desert tiles, should therefore have a very specific reason for existing. Rivers should run downhill or across level ground into bodies of water. Irrigated terrain should have a higher grassland to plains ratio than dry terrain. Mountain chains should cast rain shadows. Islands, mountains, and peninsulas should follow logical plate tectonics.
This is quite good news. We can offer a few things, but I wouldn't want to offer any gold. I'm just generally against receiving or giving gold in these types of games.
We can say that their great merchant would be most welcome to finish his mission in Egpyt (could add some roleplayey fluff here).
Offer a map trade.
Offer a gentlemen's agreement for mutual cooperation in the future. We could hang the prospect of an alliance between us, CivFr and WPC in the medium term, without going into specific details (and pending approval with WPC). But stress that we have a NAP until T175 with CFC. But also that we are no friends with CFC and would be up for some military action after that date!
Are there any resource trades that could be useful?
Forget the tinfoil hats here. CFC declaring war on CivFr certainly hasn't helped any of their trade routes, so there is a real cost to declaring. The only CivFr unit that would be close to CFC's land would be that Great Merchant, unless they had a military observer in Spanish land.
Unless we have some sort of evidence that CivFr are pulling our leg, we have to treat their communication as legitimate and honest.
Furthermore, I consider that forum views should be fluid in width
I think the implication was they burned their GM on a Golden Age.
In Soviet Russia, Civilization Micros You!
"Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must."
“I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money.”
(June 9th, 2013, 12:36)kjn Wrote: Forget the tinfoil hats here. CFC declaring war on CivFr certainly hasn't helped any of their trade routes, so there is a real cost to declaring. The only CivFr unit that would be close to CFC's land would be that Great Merchant, unless they had a military observer in Spanish land.
Unless we have some sort of evidence that CivFr are pulling our leg, we have to treat their communication as legitimate and honest.
That's just it. It is so mindbogglingly stupid to start a second war, blow all your trade routes, and piss off the guys you're going to neighbor very soon. All to murder a GM? That doesn't even make your in game position any better!
As much as we like to pretend otherwise, CFC isn't completely stupid. There must have been some reason CFC though this was a good idea. Any guess what that might be?
Do we know whether there is a NAP between CFC and WPC?
If they keep up cutting through the Spanish like this, CFC might have the idea to weaken us by declaring on WPC. I know it is not really geographically sensible, but they just declared on CivFr, so ...
mh
"You have been struck down!" - Tales of Dwarf Fortress
---
"moby_harmless seeks thee not. It is thou, thou, that madly seekest him!"
