Intersite Game - Turn Discussion Thread

[Azza]

Honestly, it seems a no-brainer to me to move the Knight and Medic chariots up. What do we lose by doing it? Nothing. A turn of healing. Big whoop. It's two units. What do we gain? Either they give up the city and move their longbow east, or they move the longbow back to the city, making our capture of Weil der Stadt easier, and potentially forcing them to leave more units to defend it, making our capture of their capital easier.

What do we lose? A turn of healing. But what do we gain vs waiting a turn? Not a lot IMO. Nothing will change in that city in 2 turns time vs in 1 turn time - it will still have either 1 quechua or 1 quechua and 1 longbow. But in 2 turns time we can have better odds with the knight or can attack with the macemen if we choose.

As far as I understand it, the idea is to try and force the Longbow to turn around and go back. We don't HAVE to attack Wanzleben immediately with the Knight and WC even if we move the 2 movers into a position where they could. The point is to try and stretch their defense, not necessarily using the injured units to immediately raze Wanzleben.

[Zargon]

I'm not even so convinced that getting the longbow to turn around is so great anyways - we're going to have to kill it sooner or later, so I'd almost rather he walk into a city right next to our big stack. It's not like he's gonna stop us.

If he goes back to the northwestern city, then when our settler is ready, we'll need to send a reasonable number of troops at it, rather than just one knight and one chariot to guard against a fluke result. The lets us keep more troops centrally located, which will be beneficial if we decide the tactical situation tells us to go for more, after we collect the last few cities in our half.

[Ceiliazul]

The longbow staying out of Weil Der Stadt or Webringen is a good result for us. Much better to get the core out of the way with less losses, and divide and conquer the edge stuff later.

[MWIN]

Can we please discuss Sooo suggestion on micro? Those look like good ones...

[sooooo]

Honestly, it seems a no-brainer to me to move the Knight and Medic chariots up. What do we lose by doing it? Nothing. A turn of healing. Big whoop. It's two units. What do we gain? Either they give up the city and move their longbow east, or they move the longbow back to the city, making our capture of Weil der Stadt easier, and potentially forcing them to leave more units to defend it, making our capture of their capital easier.

What do we lose? A turn of healing. But what do we gain vs waiting a turn? Not a lot IMO. Nothing will change in that city in 2 turns time vs in 1 turn time - it will still have either 1 quechua or 1 quechua and 1 longbow. But in 2 turns time we can have better odds with the knight or can attack with the macemen if we choose.

As far as I understand it, the idea is to try and force the Longbow to turn around and go back. We don't HAVE to attack Wanzleben immediately with the Knight and WC even if we move the 2 movers into a position where they could. The point is to try and stretch their defense, not necessarily using the injured units to immediately raze Wanzleben.

Sure, but my point is that the longbow will either go back or keep going to the other city in either scenario. We don't gain anything explicitly - we stretch their defence whether we threaten their city this turn or the turn after. If we move the units this turn we threaten to take it next turn with 70-80% odds. If we wait a turn, we threaten it a turn after at probably 100% odds (macemen vs quechua is not pretty!) and we have a healthier knight. The only downside I can see is that in the extra turn we wait then that size 2 city in the northwest (sorry, can't remember the name) will get an extra unit out. Kjn - any hammer calculation for that city?

[pindicator]

I agree with Sooooo's plan to whip the grocer.

Almost afraid to watch the streamed turn after reading all this...

[antisocialmunky]

Don't forget that you have units sitting pretty close to that city left of the capitol. They may just sack the Quecha city knight or no knight.

[Zargon]

3-Whipping the grocer in Gourmet Menu, sounds good - we're going to be running an even lower science slider in the coming turns as we get about 900 beakers while waiting for our GP to pop in the hopes that he's a scientist for the printing press bulb. I think it does mean that the food surplus in Seven Tribes will drop from 7 to 6 due to trading that plains farm for a plains cottage, and it needs 20 food to grow, iirc from the stream, so that's a downside, not sure if it's worth it, or if it's reparable. Maybe whipping in 2 turns so as to not delay the growth of Seven Tribes? Then again, what tile is Seven Tribes going to grow onto assuming it's delayed? The 2-1-1 farm. Maybe delaying that a turn is fine.

I think we did a similar calculation on that cottage vs horse at French Riviera, and it was in favor of the cottage last time, so I see no reason why it would be different now.

Dunno about the cutting edge build.

For Focal Point, I do think a pike at this late stage of the German war is probably wasted. We'll clearly want a few for our next war, so missionaries now and pikes later seems better.

[scooter]

I didn't see the stream, but we definitely have some know-it-alls, some sticks-in-the-muds, some holier-than-thous, and some generally testy folks. But that shit often makes us the force that we are as a unit. So chill out and aim those tendencies at those that deserve it, like CFC.

*applause*

Have you ever played a game in a team with NobleHelium? No. You would run for the hills. Right now he's being extremely toned down IMO. You are not seeing even remotely the level of nitpicking that could be done and has been done in past games.

The most accurate statement ever. When we spent a full 90+ minutes discussing the different variations of where we could move a single initial scouting unit on T0 of PB8, that was when I finally understood what REAL nitpicking looks like.

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Anyway, I'm on board with sooooo's micro suggestions. As for the Knight/Chariot issue, my understanding of the various arguments for and against moving them goes like this:

Pros:
1) Who cares about healing, the point is to capture/burn cities, this let's us do it the quickest.
2) This forces them into making decisions immediately. They may elect to empty a city, shuffle defenses, or who knows what. Forcing them into making a decision is a good outcome.
3) We aren't risking anything. We aren't losing that medic next turn because we have maces covering it. The only thing we're missing out on is a turn of healing. We don't even HAVE to attack next turn, we can still wait til then to make the decision.

Cons:
1) It may be smarter for us to burn the northwest city in 2T rather than next turn anyway (since we need to wait for a settler to replace), so why not heal for a turn why we wait
2) The above pros may have no actual impact on where they place their units, so why are we bothering?


I find the advantages of moving forward to be slightly more appealing/convincing.

[Jabah]

Now that we have Alphabet, I thought we wanted at least a spy. What would be the best place to get one quickly behind the german front.

Since CFC has finished the spanish, a pike (or 3 ) for the globe theatre city would be a (tiny) insurance against a knight pre-emptive strike... (could we even imagine CFC letting some 3rd party knights doing it while CFC denying knowing the aim of a few knights wandering in their territory). This city is probably the most valuable city that could be hit by 2 movers on war declaration turn.