The Quarterdeck - Turn Discussion Thread

[Cornflakes]

I looked over Gillette map and I think that there is room to squeeze in a couple poor filler cities, so maybe they only have 8 or 9 island cities ... but still, that's much further ahead than I expected! There are those little islands hopping along the way to ... 1-tile iron, little desert, and tundra silver. Did you count those too?

In any case we definitely finish Military Science before thinking Astronomy. If we just let our NAP expire I wouldn't put it past Q to try invading us first. He's already lost, and thinks to get something out of his army. If he does invade we and can waltz in. Delaying Astronomy until after Steel won't hurt us much in the island grab because of our fast tech pace (assuming we stay in Bureaucracy the whole time). We'll need to get Settlers out before Galleons become really useful. Plus We can whip out Drydocks to get ship production booming (with Theocracy we'd get Navigation promotion too).

Don't build any fresh pikes, but yeah all pikes that we currently have should sit in Maracaibo while the rest of our units wait on the hill. Everything pre-gunpowder is basically obsolete now. Mace builds are just for the auto-upgrade.

I still haven't sent anything off to Q.

[thestick]

I only counted what I saw; I think the tiny little island cities were included in the count. Steel before Astronomy I'm questioning... Drydocks are 120 hammers and give +50% to naval units, so they save 27 hammers from each Galleon we make. (Yes, Forges/Organized Religion changes things, abstracting!)

Waaait, Maces don't autoupgrade to Grenadiers since we don't have Rifling Since Maces upgrade to Grenadiers or Rifles, they can still be built after Military Science. Swap everything to Catapults instead?

How about this to Q:

We will not pay for an NAP.

[Cornflakes]

Waaait, Maces don't autoupgrade to Grenadiers since we don't have Rifling

my bad I rarely ever go MilSci before Rifling. Since this game is Sequential the production for this turn has already occurred so we don't need to decide right away. Don't have time to think about it.

Steel/Astronomy. We need to choose our plan and stick with it, not divide our attention. Are we going for war to conquer? If so then Steel and maybe even forget next Astronomy in favor of Rifling (better draft). If we plan trying to claim the island then we stay purely defensive vs. TEAM and Cats are sufficient for collateral in that case so full steam ahead on Astronomy. We need to pick an option and commit to it. I'm game for either play so pick you poison.

Message sent to Q

[Cornflakes]

Damn.
NAP to T250, no strings?


[FTR I wasn't bluffing, I was just trying to work out what I wanted then, and trying to cope with losing 1200 gold for nothing ]

Here's the response from Q. Don't know what to do here. I think that playing for the island is the correct move. We are closest to TEAM's share of the island, so we can claim that too if we're quick about it. If we attack Q we'll be creating a mortal enemy who won't give up until he's dead. M3 could very well join while our hands are tied out east, and lack of MFG and food for conversion to soldiers are our big gaping weaknesses (GNP we're actually competitive).

Here's me thinking out loud ...
– it would really be nice to add TEAM's two westernmost border cities to our empire.
– Q wants a loooong NAP, and earlier mentioned something about game-long and surviving as his first priority.
– if we go to war Q will probably get aid from Trolls and probably become our enemy-to-death
...
...
This gives me an idea for an interesting treaty: We offer a game-long NAP to Q in exchange for his two westernmost cities, threatening Grens + Steel for Cannon by T178 with ability to draft Muskets and take the cities ourselves. But saying that once we commit we won't be content just stopping at the border cities. The NAP would include our mutual agreement to NEVER engage in military actions against each other (e.g. pillaging, attacking units/cities) on the home continent and any islands currently in TEAM's possession. We could agree to permanently gift any spare resources that the other lacks (making up for the fact that he loses sugar and ivory from his border cities). I would even offer to give cash in exchange for those cities, maybe 500 gold.

Even though this basically gives TEAM's territory to Trolls eventually the immediate benefit to us is that (1) no war means resources get funneled completely into settling the island continent, and (2) immediate access to 2 cities which we'd take anyway but which by gifting retain buildings, pop, and culture reset.

[thestick]

Definitely think that Astronomy would be better than war, if for no other reason than it's less stressful. Plus again, war needs a huge production edge...

Thinking out loud here... I am Q. I am stuck with a giant army and a huge debt, with no way to gain anything from it. I can't invade Trolls because they still have a huge army (look at Power graph), and invading the Pirates would be a bloodbath since they have Nationhood and Grenadiers. Extorting peace didn't work, and they can destroy me (I don't agree with this, but I'm pretty sure that's what he's thinking), so I should offer them an NAP and hunker down.

Considering that Q's already conceded a city for Trolls, I actually think he might be receptive to giving up a border city. But considering that he only gave one city to the Trolls, the big guy on the block, I don't think he'll give up two cities to us, the minnows.

You know... I'm feeling less and less confident of our chances to actually win an offensive war if he calls our bluff. I think we should just take an NAP straight up.

[Cornflakes]

yeah, less stress would be good I'm expecting to have a several-front war resume shortly in PB9 so i won't have a ton of time to contribute. I think our chances on success (at least in terms of bettering our position and pulling past M3) are about the same either way, so lets go the peace route. I'll notify Q after work unless you have any other thoughts during the day.

Sorry about the lost hammers in maces. Probably finish the ones that are within a turn or two of completion. More that that just forget about the sunk hammers if we have something better to build (buildings, settlers, galley pre-build as close to 49 hammers as possible).

I think our tech goals after finishing MilSci are Astronomy first, then Banking. My thought is spam as many settlers as possible and as many galleons as needed and flood the island with settlers and workers. This will necessarily crash the economy, and Banks will be really lucrative with the lower slider in the core with our high commerce focus.

[thestick]

Banking unlocks Replaceable Parts and Rifling, no? Yay.

Next order of business: asking Gillette for their map, as whatever lurkers are left are probably laughing at us for attempting to colonize without Caravels or scouting knowledge. How about:

We would like to negotiate a map swap. We are tentatively offering 50 gold.

[Cornflakes]

I'm getting busy with PB9 back online. Could you negotiate the map swap? 50g is ok for starters. If they as 100g just give it. We're pushing at least 350-400g per turn while saving so it's not a big deal. It might slow Astronomy by 1 turn, but knowing the lay of the land will speed up our colonization by at least a turn.

[thestick]

Sent.

Also, we have an open message from M3, they want to know if we're in on the coalition.

We do not feel that attacking Trolls will bring any benefit. We would need the support of at least Gillette to know that our troops are not pointlessly dying.

Prisoners dilemma, defect instead of cooperate?

[thestick]

We received a message from Trolls!

Hi,

Sure thing. We promise not to send them any more units after T175. We will be gifting them 5 more maces and then our delivery is complete. Good luck in your negotiations / upcoming war.

Zakalwe

PS. Sorry for the late reply. I thought I had forwarding set up, but apparently not.

It worked, except we aren't going to war so it's a moot point.

Did you notify Q about accepting the proposal? If so, how about this:

Thank you. Negotiations are actually going well, we are negotiating a straight-up NAP until T250.