(June 23rd, 2013, 23:46)Mattimeo Wrote: Again, why? I can trade 1-1 with someone who it appears almost certainly committed a night kill, in a situation where from past experience he's unlikely to have done so as a town-friendly role. How is that not I thing I should be attempting to do?
I think the whole thing is complicated by Azza being a 3rd party. He's not a werewolf, and from Serdoa's write up it's pretty clear he's a third party. So you don't know if Lewwyn as a vig shot Azza or if Lewwyn the wolf killed him.
Rowain also fits as the likely candidate for the wolf target. He's very competent (and mental note: I still need to look at his posts to refresh what his arguments were) and I'm sure wolves out here would want him gone if they've played with him before. Also points to a vet being amongst the wolves, but that's hardly an earth-shattering revelation.
Anyway, it's done now. We can argue about whether you should have or not in the postgame.
Also, I really don't like that Gazglum was the one who tried to prod this information out of you. I would think he should be able to figure out as much as I did if he were village.
(June 23rd, 2013, 23:46)Mattimeo Wrote: So, the only conclusion I can make is that you were the one to kill him.
And why would I not out someone who, as is apparent, make a kill on someone? Especially since I seem to recall you being firmly in the "Vig should not shoot first night" camp, which would indicate such a kill was not of town-origin. As worst, your buddies (or the wolves, if you're the SK) kill me off tonight and I've made a 1-1 trade with scum, about the best you can expect as villager.
No! no! No! A hundred times no! I do not believe that the vig should wait to kill! Do you not at all remember the last game I was vig? I shot every single chance I had, including the first night. Goddamnit Matt who the hell do you think I am??
I am not scum! I am human and my ability would have had no effect on Azza if he were human!
“The wind went mute and the trees in the forest stood still. It was time for the last tale.”
(June 23rd, 2013, 23:57)novice Wrote: Why were you tracking/watching Azza, Matt?
Why would scum night kill Azza?
Azza is someone who's generally quiet, but can contribute well late - and will often reach late game.
Hence, knowledge about him is going to substantially increase known about him, and is likely to be relevant for much longer than if I tracked someone who's more likely to be killed as a threat early on, or lynched early for putting their foot in their mouth.
I'd imagine scum would kill him for similar reasons - it doesn't leave much of a trail if he ends up dead, and he can be quite good late game.
I'll admit I was focusing more on the 'track the person you target' side of things rather than the 'see who visits them', which would likely have skewed my target more towards those likely to be attacked that night.
(June 24th, 2013, 00:13)Lewwyn Wrote:
No! no! No! A hundred times no! I do not believe that the vig should wait to kill! Do you not at all remember the last game I was vig? I shot every single chance I had, including the first night. Goddamnit Matt who the hell do you think I am??
I am not scum! I am human and my ability would have had no effect on Azza if he were human!
Well, shit :/
-- Don’t forget.
Always, somewhere,
someone is fighting for you.
-- As long as you remember her,
you are not alone.
(June 23rd, 2013, 23:12)Qgqqqqq Wrote: I'll respond to the rest later Gazglum, as I don't have time, but this:
Quote:Looking back at that exchange, I actually find you more suspicious Qgqqqq. Your initial vote was on Slow, for semi-random reasons (as initial votes always are). But then you spend a day doing nothing except asking questions of Zak and Brick. Your only opinions are
Where do you get this from?
I thought Slows vote was suspicious, and said so, albeit not locally or loudly, as I didn't have time.
Ok, I've reread, and maybe I did you a partial injustice. It seemed to me that you voted Slowcheetah fairly flippantly, then didn't mention him for 24 hours, saying "Ï have no tells", then suddenly rediscovered him once he picked up more heat. But rereadig, I can see that guess this post:
(June 21st, 2013, 07:26)Qgqqqqq Wrote: Its not the bandwagon that was the problem [for me], but the fact that it was being disguised as something else.
Yeah, probably a cross post, but it stuck out for me.
Is probably a reference to Slowcheetah. So your play makes a bit more sense to me now. I still don't really buy Slow as scum though.
As for Lewwyn, it seems there must be two possibilities. Serdoa’s story mentioned a third faction joining the game, and we know that Azza is a ghoul. A serial killer would make four factions which seem too many. So either,
1. Ghouls (Azza and co) kill Rowain, wolves (Lewwyn and co) kill Azza.
The second seems more likely to me, because I don’t see why wolves would kill Azza, whereas I can definitely see them killing Rowain. So I’m inclined to believe Lewwyn.
Pindicator, its not Uberfish's tone that bothers me particularly, I know he's a gruff old bear. It's how he's handeld the MJW deadline lynch and aftermath I don't like. He voted for an innocent, then he was cagey about his motivations when questioned afterwards. Then look at what he says afterwards,
(June 23rd, 2013, 17:35)uberfish Wrote: Looking at that last minute move.I still think jowy is innocent atm. I don't care if he posts in a weird style so long as he is producing actual content. If all 3 main candidates (MJW, jowy, myself) at the end were innocent I think that's somewhat a village tell on Ichabod too, I don't see much incentive for wolf ichabod to start a last minute run on MJW under these circumstances. I think scum would regard me as a higher value mislynch target than MJW anyway since it's easier to get MJW lynched late in the game for acting weird. I'm ok with pind's explanation of his vote, starting to sound a bit like the emotional village pind from previous games. Brick's vote is weird.@Novice my point was MJW's speculation was particularly detailed compared to say, Q's, and that gazglum post later was a response to MJW
Compare that to,
(June 23rd, 2013, 17:35)uberfish Wrote:
gazglum Wrote:I wouldbn't be at all surprised if there was wolf involvement in that last minute MJW push, but I do sympathise with the people involved. Deadline hopping is pretty fast-paced stuff, and I know its easy to get caught up in the moment. While I can see why people are suspicious of Pindicator, I can also buy his behaviour as a villager excited at having gone from 'probably going to die' to 'hey, maybe we're about to catch a wolf'.
People on the MJW train the first time through the station don't have teh adrenaline rush defence, so I'm more suspicious of them than the final voters. Skim reading back, that's Uberfish, Mattimeo, Jowy, Ichabod and Pindicator, maybe a couple of others I missed.
There's a lot of hedging there, and the interesting thing about what he mentions concerning MJW voters is that he'd already called everyone voting for MJW potential wolves in the early part of day 1. I think if he's a first time (? not sure) wolf he might be finding it hard to make up reads. Thus the hedging (and spotlighting MJW voters is a pretty convenient method for getting "reads" if you're a wolf and already know MJW is village.)
(by the way, why is it scummy to be consistent in thinking there were wolves on MJW early on?)
So Uber thinks I’m scummy for saying I think wolves were on MJW, an easy mislynch target to park on, but he thinks Pindicator, Jowy, himself, Ichabod are all innocent? That seems a strong call given what happened. What do you uthink about Zak and Brick, Uber? I think it is a LOT more likely than not that there were wolves on MJW.
He also points out that scum would prefer to mislynch him rather than MJW. I agree completely. So in a fluid last minute deadline situation, where Uberfish was briefly in danger of going down, why WOULDN’T the scum have ensured that they got their man? It seems like a huge wasted opportunity.
Night 1, he is cagey about responding to questions on his motivations. Sure, he did in the end, but why not come out with his reasons immediately?
Finally, the choie of Rowain obviously potentially benefitted a fair few people, but Uber was definitely one of them.
Shortly before the MJW fun:
(June 22nd, 2013, 12:49)Rowain Wrote: uberfish
Implying that Uber was at least Rowain's second choice after MJW.
Rowain spent night 1 challenging Uber’s claim of self-preservation, and said,
(June 23rd, 2013, 01:50)Rowain Wrote:
(June 22nd, 2013, 17:17)uberfish Wrote: MJW had momentum and who knows if Jowy voters would switch to me.
uberfish it would be far easier to trust you if you wouldn't give your truth piecemeal.
Rowain then made a final list which didn’t include you Uberfish, I’ll grant that. But that was JUST before deadline, by which point a kill order would already have gone through. If he had got you rattled earlier in the night, it would make perfect sense for you to get rid of him.
And then start Day 2 by jumping in on me, a completely fresh target to mark a clean slate. He scoffs at the idea that MJW voters could be wolves, and then accelerates as fast as possible from the wreckage of the Day 1 lynch.
