WW25 - Game Thread

[novice]

I agree that Lewwyn and Mattimeo earn town tells.

Zak, what's the case on Slowcheetah?

Ichabod, why did you herd everybody onto MJW?

[Gazglum]

Pindicator, I have a question for you to pass onto Brick. Or rather, Brick has an answer I'd like him to pass onto you.

Brick, without quoting your pm, did Serdoa give you any roleplay indication as to why you would lose your post restriction only when sanity is low? The more obvious restriction would seem to be that you can talk more coherently when sanity is high, or if that was unfair on you (as I think sanity is likely to drop overall), have you develop the post restriction later in the game if sanity drops?

[novice]

BRick's PR does seem very restrictive - OTOH Pindicator's ability is a nice antidote.

[zakalwe]

Zak, what's the case on Slowcheetah?

I don't like his early reactions here:

It's the first post, I've always seen them as mostly meaningless in themselves. Theoretically, people's reactions to different names may provide a little evidence later on though.

Fine but what are your impressions now?
Whom do you find scummy, whom would you like to lynch and why?

Lynch tells, nothing strikes me as obvious. Q feels curt and I'm a relatively easy mislynch, so good to go after. On the otherhand my first post was apparently pretty baity based on the reactions of most.

I don't want to kill Brick entirely because I'm enjoying his posts. Zak and you are sparring, leaves me fairly convinced that my vote for you has less of a point than it did in the first place.

Azza hasn't really said much.

That Azza vote is also very half-hearted and looks more like distancing than anything else. He is very apologetic towards his attackers, with the exception of Q where he just makes a minor jab without following through.

Also I don't like his post on Ichabod, as mentioned earlier. Spoilered below.

Looking through the case against Ichabod is interesting as well. I believe it was Rowain who stated that his last vote for pindicator had no reasoning:

Zak, i already posted my reason. It's more of a feel off his posts, and how it reminds me of a prior wolf game of his.

Question back at ya: after your back and forth with Brick, what's your thoughts on him and his accusation on you?

Pindicator.

If he's a wolf it's cleverer then that. The message is confusing, there are multiple different interpretations of the image, and no thorough explanation. Therefore:

1) Ichabod's posts encourages people to look back at pindicators posts
2) If something suspicious springs out they are more likely to come to the conclusion that is what the picture meant and agree with Ichabod.

As I type this I realise that occams razor suggest it more likely the Ichabod also wanted to have fun with pictures. He also feels more like villager Ichabod than the long, wordy wolfabod I played with once.

He says he's "looking through the case" which seems like a bit of an exaggeration, seeing as nobody had articulated much of a case at all. (It was just Rowain and me on Ichabod at that time, IIRC.)

[Serdoa]

Official Tally:

Gazglum (3) - uberfish, Lewwyn, pindicator
slowcheetah (2) - Qgqqqqq, zakalwe
Mattimeo (1) - Jowy
Lewwyn (1) - Mattimeo
uberfish (1) - Gazglum
Ichabod (1) - novice

1 day 8 hours 35 minutes to go.

[Qgqqqqq]

Ok firstly my thoughts on this:

Actually, I'm out. I told myself I wasn't going to get worked up about WW, and here I am getting worked up about you guys being dumbasses in WW. I really don't want to play the same old game I always play:

targeted day 1 or 2
tenaciously fight it off but only just barely
make good contributions
mislynched at the end becuase i was targeted day 1 or 2

Gaspar, I'll see you on the fun side of the game

(And Serdoa, I totally called it!)

Personally, this gives me a really strong town read on Pindicater (helped by the fact that I didn't suspect him before ).
Why?
Because I think that it isn't faked because a) I think faking emotional defences or out-of-game problems (like having to go to sleep, being sick etc.) is one of the dickiest things you can do in WW, and Pins not the sort to fake it (I suppose he could be SK/survivor...but barely believable IMO). And in my experience as scum it'd be really hard to have such a moment, because as scum you know their right.

@ Q: I’m not sure about Slow’s case. Sure, it’s silly to say that the wolves were all out to get him. But Slow’s attack on Pindicator felt like real scumhunting, and he followed through on it, keeping his vote there.

Afaict, his "scumhunting" consisted of telling pin that he was also just being helpful. But I didn't get the case then and still don't.

I agree with him that pressuring lurkers is a good move on Day 1, so I don't mind his Azza vote.

My problem is that azza is a chronic lurker, so I don't see him as a place to place votes ( Id pressure you, for instance, if looking for lurkers because that was a departure from the norm, even if it was explained), I also dislike it because, as azza is hardly going to change, a vote on him is one you can leave for a good while, helping ease the scumhunting pressure.

He was looking around at other targets, considering Ichabod as well.

I've addressed my view on this.
Now, onto me

Looking back at that exchange, I actually find you more suspicious Qgqqqq. Your initial vote was on Slow, for semi-random reasons (as initial votes always are).

Firstly I'm almost entirely sure this wasn't my initial vote, and the reasons were not semi random at all. Your stating it like this diminishes its worth as a vote, an off hand comment which seems to simply support your later comments. This in general makes it sound like it wasn't of use. I'm not sure if this is deliberate or not, so no problem if you just missed it.

But then you spend a day doing nothing except asking questions of Zak and Brick. Your only opinions are

37: Slowcheetah is suspicious for relying on history/bandwagoning
56: I don’t find MJW’s vote suspicious, but fake-edit maybe I do if it was a pressure vote
162: Jowy is screaming wolf, but I don’t think he is.
162: Novice is quiet.

To paraphrase Uber on me, that’s a lot of hedging.

I don't get your point?? I'm not seeing anything suspicious, just basically enjoying day 1, whilst posting my reactions to the days events.
I mean, there's hardly anything going on, I've been offline for most of it, and I'm already posting my opinions on Slow.

Zak accuses you of making reasonable sounding posts that don’t add much, and then Rowain adds his vote to Slowcheetah bringing him up into lynch territory. So then you bring out the full attack on Slowcheetah, which is fine, except that you were already parked on him and so were presumably thinking about him. But you had said that you “didn’t see any tells”, I’ve not noticed anything in particular” and you told Slow that you weren’t really going after him.

I leapt onto slow again after rereading the thread, where, like I said, it just stuck out like a sore thumb. I post my response about being 'curt' (because I'm trying to be less mean after reading some of Molach(?) stuff from WW20) and then look through, noticing that its still odd, plus his reaction is weird and come back with that. And yes, noticing that others share what is essentially gut at that point helps with me prosecuting it.
As an aside, I'm not sure why you think him being in full lynch territory is a reason for a wolf to target him? If you become associated as leading mislynches, then how is that beneficial? The town generally mislynchs day1 anyway, so why should wolf-Q try to get a specific villager lynched??

Lynch tells, nothing strikes me as obvious. Q feels curt and I'm a relatively easy mislynch, so good to go after. On the otherhand my first post was apparently pretty baity based on the reactions of most.

I know its a instant reaction to go after someone you feel attacking you, but I don't like this post. Firstly, I'm not really going after you as you claim, a simple post saying a reason I found you suspicious is nothing more then half the players have at this point. Therefore it seems to me that you're simply attacking people voting you at this point, which is an easy move to get away with because you can claim emotional reaction. In the process you are dismissing the vote by saying that you're easy to go after, while simultaneously excusing your suspicion against me by saying that it was a bait worthy post.
I'm not sure I've explained myself properly, but the summary is an attack without attacking, avoiding a confrontation while smearing my vote on you.

I don't want to kill Brick entirely because I'm enjoying his posts. Zak and you are sparring, leaves me fairly convinced that my vote for you has less of a point than it did in the first place.

Fluff, dismissing his earlier vote (though I still find the timing suspect). Is he saying he has town read on zak/Rowain? I can't tell.

Azza hasn't really said much.

A very easy on azza, no real explanation and maintaining that there's no suspicion (so he has no responsibility). Azza never says much, but you really do seem to be trying to fly under the radar.

Wel if nobody is really ringing, surely the best option is ringing up one of the guys with low post counts. It's not like we are particularly late in day one yet.

Why is the best option to dump a vote on someone who isn't going to post because of it (azza)? And someone who isn't going to be lynched today, who you have no suspicions on?

Slow doesn't say much in his other posts. Suffice to say, I think he's trying desperately to lurk and avoid confrontation.
slowcheetah

This post came after you'd already responded to Slow’s 'Q feels curt'post you quote here,and you just gave a friendly apology. Why did you then decide it was scummy?

Sorry, responded earlier
Suffice to say, I read through, saw I might have caused offence and quickly typed a apology.

Rowain and Zak had both voiced suspicion of you, and you end up launching your attack on the other player they had voted for, and Rowain voted you, but then he switches to SLowcheetah.

Complete coincidence. I don't even remember rowain voting me.

That’s when you stopped hedging and went all-out on Slow - which had the benefit of keeping momentum on him, instead of it drifting back to you. I don't liek the timing.

Err...sorry?
Hedging is when people are pressuring you right? I don't think I was hedging earlier, there was nothing to hedge on. I also don't time my day-night hours around a WW game - thats about the time I always post big, because its around about when I have free time to do so.
Also, that sort of tactics (make a case on someone - which you are implying I do because I "aim" at slow because zak/Godwin are there) is just something I can't do. Scum or village, I vote for and accuse those that look suspicious to me.

I think you fall on the scum side of the line Q, more than Slow.

I know people’s opinions can change when you re-read, so I don’t think you’re obv-scum. But I think you, more than Slow, fit the profile of a wolf easing through on Day 1. You minimised antagonising people by not moving your vote around at all.

Yeah, I just really haven't seen the cases this game. Particularly considering as there is (for once...) some support for who I'm suspicious of, where normally I find I choose out of a bunch of village leans.

However, hacing said all that,

Uberfish.

- initially quiet, jumped on MJW and Pindicator once they got going, was part of the mislynch of MJW and then dodged Pindicators questions until he repeated them, and called them mud-slinging. Then he starts Day 2 with a fresh line of attack on me, so he can now say I'm counterattacking.

I don't like this (). You post screeds and screeds on me, and then this on your main suspect??
I mean, its as if this is an afterthought, as though you're not really sure if there's support for it, so you go on a common example. I wouldn't even mind if you hadn't just posted on me, but to me this is clear - you wrote that post as a hit on me, and then, seeing that its weak/might not be supported/whatever. And as for him starting a line on you because you'd be counterattacking - how would he know you're attacking???
Gazglum, I'm getting more suspicious of you. But still, Slowcheetah

Oh and a note to Jowy; I'm not sure why you feel a style should change every game, but the reason it is being viewed suspiciously is the village has nothing to gain if they can't read a players style - one of the biggest advantages is the ability to analyse whether people have changed as people normally do so as part of the pressure as scum. Thus your doing so is not taken well, as it hurts the village.
Its also irritating on a personal note, as I used to play WW on a horrible phone that forced posts like that, and I a) don't like being reminded of it, and b) cannot understand why it would be done willingly. Its also annoying to read...

Oh and I would have likely reacted the same way to tracking Lewwyn to a corpse, and I thought your attitude to vigging had changed because of WW17. I agree it paints them both townishly though.

Sorry for the long post

[Qgqqqqq]

Oh and I've cross posted with you semi-retracting that and explaining the uberfish vote
Still I'm tired, and can't be bothered

[Gazglum]

Oh and I've cross posted with you semi-retracting that and explaining the uberfish vote
Still I'm tired, and can't be bothered

You cross-posted with a post from 2 hours ago? That's a hell of a writeup you must have done Q.

Ok, I'll admit my attack on you looks a bit flaky now. I did really think that Slow was your initial joke vote, and that you had held on him the rest of the time.

ANd there is some truth that I started writing a hit on you. My own sanity took a turn for the worst when I suddenly had two heavy hitters hitting me heavily, one of whom I thought was probably town, so I wanted to find a real scum who had been flying under the radar. I got excited studying you, thought I had something, but after typing it up I wasn't so sure, so I went to Uber instead.

I'm still not totally convinced though. Ok, you say it was a complete coincidence that you went SLowcheetah at the moment he seemed partly tied with you in Zak and Rowain's suspicions, and I can believe it could be. But it could also be clever scum play.

(BTW Rowain will forever be Godwin to me now, thanks Q's auto-correct.)

I also disagree that there would be no reason for scum Q to try and get Slow hanged. Especially as there seem to be three factions, so the wolves might be hunting ghouls or vice versa. And even if he was village, you could easily pull the 'a wolf would never do that' line after the dust had settled. Maybe you're right that it would be out of character for you, but I don't think its impossible. Last time you were a wolf you won and won well, so I have a high regard for your scum play Q.

What is your opinion on Uber at the moment?

[uberfish]

1) gazglum

I think youcould be scum Uber - I didn't like your hostile responses to Pindicator during the night. Jowy I still think very much could be scum - he's making some very coherent points about people today, (again, a shift in style from his noncommunicative votes yesterday), which make him seem very switched on, but yesterday he was playing the noob card.

I also dont like that ýou and Jowy have both come out at the start of Day 2, after a controversial end to Day 1, by both launching fresh attacks on m, when you hadn't pushed at me at all before, even though I had voted both of you.

- doesn't like my hostile reaction to Pind last night. How is that a tell of any sort? I could be annoyed at Pind regardless of my alignment.

- why would I attack gaz now instead of yesterday? Because he made a suspicious post that made me go back and reread his earlier posts. The d1 vote on me didn't bother me at the time, since it didn't seem out of line as a d1 vote - you don't need much of a case to vote people during early day 1.

- As for jowy, everyone told him to start providing actual reasoning and he did (while still posting in the same sentence structure), why would that be suspicious?

Then he starts Day 2 with a fresh line of attack on me, so he can now say I'm counterattacking.

- this doesn't make sense either. Why would I need to say that gazglum was counterattacking? I don't consider that a scum tell. This reads more like gazglum himself is worried that if he counterattacks me people might call that as a scum tell on him, therefore he has to excuse his own behaviour.


About SC, I haven't had time to reread his posts fully yet (damn the lack of scraper), but I don't like it when low activity players point the finger at others (Azza in this case) for also being low activity.

more later

[Jowy]

just me who find mattimeo and lewwyn disaster strange?
both get some wolf heat
suddenly mattimeo huge mistake that screw up whole village if true
end result people think both are villager.
maybe i overestimate player skill and it really was dumb play.
but i find such mistake unlikely to occur.

that said, there are other targets. lets see what happen at night.
but keep this in mind next day.