WW25 - Game Thread

[zakalwe]

I wouldn't be surprised if both you, Gazglum, and Lewwyn were innocent. Maybe even Novice and Ichabod, too. Yeah, that's a lot of innocent strong players. So rather than hunt for superwolves, I have been concluding that there are enough town vibes to go around for now that the sensible thing to do is to just lynch the obvghoul. Tomorrow we can make a more informed decision about who the wolves are.

But since you insist on bullying me into it, I'll be a good villager and throw out some reads. If you want a concrete wolf suspect, then maybe take a second look at Brick. You said yourself on day 1 that he could have done a better job of actually contributing, and I still think that is true. Q could still be a wolf, and so could Jkaen. And if there is a superwolf, then my gut says it's either you or Novice. I'm neutral on Mattimeo, and leaning town on Jowy and Pindicator.

With 16 players, I don't know what the setup is anyway. 2-2-14 seems a little slanted in favor of town, does it not?

[novice]

I were scum you can rest assured I would have steered well clear of that hornet's nest, and stayed quiet about the whole neighbor thread.

Anyway, the thing about Azza's post in defense of Slowcheetah is this. Why did he only post it in the neighbor thread? If he just wanted to be active, collect towncred, or whatnot, why not post publicly? He knew that Rowain and I were liable to vote as a block and so he made a targeted effort to get us off Slowcheetah. But he didn't want to be seen to defend him in public. That's pretty telling.

Besides, why would he defend anyone so strongly, if there are multiple scum factions? If Slowcheetah isn't in league with Azza, Azza would have to consider that I might be right about Slowcheetah, and Slowcheetah could be a wolf. Hence, he would be taking a big risk to defend him so strongly like that. Take into account the fact that Azza must have had a genuine desire to catch wolves, and there's no reason why he wouldn't go along with my wish to vote as a block for Slowcheetah.

Well, I think these are good points by Zak.
Slowcheetah

[Serdoa]

Official Tally:

slowcheetah (3) - Qgqqqqq, zakalwe, novice
Ichabod (2) - Mattimeo, pindicator
zakalwe (2) - Lewwyn, Ichabod
Gazglum (1) - uberfish
Mattimeo (1) - Jowy
Lewwyn (1) - BRickAstley
uberfish (1) - Gazglum

Not voting (2) - Jkaen, slowcheetah

9 hours 45 minutes to go.

[Gazglum]

Also, Zak apparently isn't interested in the Gazglum case one way or the other apart from trying to get Ichabod's opinion on me. Gazglum mentioned Zak as a potential wolf a couple of times now and has shown no actual interest in investigating him either. That's suspicious. If one of them is a wolf, the other is a likely partner. I think we should lynch one of these two today.

Uberfish, no. I know we're suspicious of each other at the moment, but this is just false. I have barely mentioned Zak at all, in any context. I just reread my posts to check. I mentioned him and Rowain being synchronised swimmers, talked about him in relation to Q, and asked you what you thought about him, because you had skipped him in the net of innocence you threw over the MJW voters. I never put him on my potential wolf list. The closest I got was to say that I thought the MJW voters were suspicious, but I thought the original bandwagoners were more suspicious than the final lynchers. Zak wasn't one of those.

It's true that I haven't been investigating Zak, I had a neutral read on him, he was contributing, and Day 1 had a lot of other threads to follow. But I haven't been casting any dirt on him either.

I appreciate you suspect me Uber, and that it could be genuine, but you are barking up the wrong tree. And if you're just trying to build a mislynch, you need to up your game, sir!

As for what I think about Zak now, I can see the intutive appeal of a 1/1/1 split in the QT, but that is not a reason to lynch someone, especially when Serdoa specifically warned us about meta. If Zak edited or invented the entire QT to take advantage of Azza and Rowain's deaths, then that is diabolically genius and he deserves to be crowned King of the Werewolves. The case against Slow sounds persuasive, but I would want to wait to hear his side of the story before making up my mind on it.

[Qgqqqqq]

I personally definitely believe the QT, though I wouldnt be overly surprised if it was edited to paint zak in a better light/contribute to it. Honestly though I'm not seeing any evidence for it.
If you're voting zak because you think he's a wolf hunting ghuls - doesn't that mean you suspect slow might be a ghoul and agree with the case?
In which case, I don't see why you wouldn't lynch slow first and foremost and then consider zaks case based off that - especially as it seems its contingent on second hunting third party tells?

I like the azza-slow connection as a support for the case, but I find it odd that Gazglum finds it a good case solely on that - especially seeing as he didn't find the earlier behaviour suspect.

[Qgqqqqq]

Oh and watch Gazglum sidle up to a lynch he earlier dismissed, ready to save himself with the wagon.

[Gazglum]

Oh and watch Gazglum sidle up to a lynch he earlier dismissed, ready to save himself with the wagon.

Oh, and watch Q pretend that his case from Day 1 and Zak's case from Day 2 are the same?

Yes, Q, I dismissed your case. I saw it as,

- he was counterattacking those who voted him and saying he was an easy target
- some light-content posts (which you had too)
- the Azza vote
- half hearted jab at Ichabod.

That wasn't good enough. Slow drew up a pretty good attack on Pindicator, and I was doing a lurker pressure vote myself, so it would be pretty churlish to hold his Azza vote against him. The Ichabod post was a null tell for me, because town players should talk through their thoughts, even if they don't amount to that much. And I thought it wasn't that bad a point to make. To me, the content of your posts and Slows seemed much of a muchness, and both a less scummy than Day 1 Jowy.

Zak's case is stronger, and it also retroactively makes your point about the Azza vote hold more water. If Slow continues to lurk after a vocal Day 1, that would be another scum tell.

And yes, if I had to jump on any bandwagon to save my own life, of course I would, as would you or anybody else. I would do so shamelessly, and with aplomb. But until that looks likely, I'll keep my vote on Uber and see if Slow shows up.

[slowcheetah]

I'm sorry guys but Pindicators illness has gone transatlantic. I'm feeling like crap and have to work this evening, so I'm probably going to sleep most of the afternoon.

If you pull me down then its mislynch o'clock. My thoughts are mostly based on gutfeel, I like lewwyn's reasoning on Zakalwe. In addition I offer this, which I was researching yesterday:

Lets do a spot the difference:
Post 403 (today)-

zakalwe Wrote: Jowy. If you're just a vanilla villager, and not post restricted, how come you can't post an ordinary sentence?

Please answer this question, Jowy.

Post 352 (today)-

Well the important thing is to analyze the process, not the result. And the process was pretty crappy, too.

Jowy. If you're just a vanilla villager, and not post restricted, how come you can't post an ordinary sentence?

Post 154 (yesterda)-

I too would like to know why Jowy has changed his posting style so radically, given that he was perfectly eloquent in the 2 rooms and a boom game

Post 184- Jowy's response, which he has been pretty consistent about and doesn't seem to want to expand upon.

play every game same way, you become predictable.
being predictable is weakness.

Zak is famous for a hig post count, and he said in the previous game that it is necessary for him to keep one up as a wolf. He seemed to be struggling to find purchase and kept asking just to make his presence felt, probably gambling that jowy's 'style' annoyed everybody enough that they wouldn't care about the constant questioning.

I trust Lewwyn and oddly enough pindicator. Gazglum and uberfish are so-so, as is Ichabod. Novice would make a good lynch as would Mattimeo if he doesn't get nightkilled. Brick I'm undecided on. Q would also make a good lynch after you lynch me and I come up innocent.

Gazglum asked me a question on why I voted for Azza. In my experience he does respond when his name is brought up, even though his pattern is lurking. Consequently, an earlygame vote for him is worthwhile.

[zakalwe]

Why would we have to mislynch you before Q would make a good lynch?

[Gazglum]

The part that contributes to my suspicion against Slowcheetah is this:

I'm going to hope that both of you are also village.

I don't like the slowcheetah wagon for two reasons. The first is I think he made a very good case on pindicator, but that's not why I want to keep this post here.
The second is that if he is scum, I believe he'll leave more and more breadcrumbs about who his scumbuddies are, and will leave some clearer scum tells over the coming days. He did that last game, and IMO completely changing his play style from last game to this game is unlikely.

I'd much rather lynch pindicator today and reconsider slowcheetah day 2 or 3 when we have a bit more to go off.

I think a likely explanation for this post is the straightforward one: Slowcheetah is in league with Azza.

Zak, why do you think Azza (a ghoul) couldn't have been telling the truth about his motivations, if he thought Slowcheetah was a wolf?