WW25 - Game Thread

[zakalwe]

Ok thinking about it some more, I just see the timing of Zak's QT reveal as something a scum would do rather than a villager. There's just no good reason for a villager not to reveal the main piece of evidence against his main suspect at the beginning of the day. It's not like the reveal exposes any valuable role. Whereas scum zak would definitely be initially reluctant to reveal to avoid meta arguments, but might decide to do so later if he needed more ammo.

It took me only one minute to refute this on my iPad.

[BRickAstley]

[uberfish]

Uberfish, like I said earlier, there could be more than two ghouls. That's why I held off for half a day. That's also why I was sitting back, like you observed. I was looking for interaction tells. Azza would presumably have updated his fellow ghouls on what happened in the QT, so they would know that I had incriminating evidence on Slowcheetah. So there was no real point in masking my own suspicion. But it was still interesting to see if anyone would follow me before I made my reveal.

So you were hiding information from the ghouls that you were already assuming that they knew... ? And you sat back on day/night 1 in the expectation that one of your QT mates would die and flip scum so you could look for interaction tells? I'm not buying this.

[zakalwe]

Don't be daft, Uberfish.

One interaction tell could for example be someone who was too eager to bus him.

It also gave me a chance to assess his reactions. He kept his head down, as if he knew I had something more up my sleeve.

[pindicator]

Okay, so today, after I exchanged pleasentries with Pindicator in the quicktopic and used him to explain some niggling issues about my post restriction for the day, I began my hunt. We had 2 night kills, and the instance of Lewwyn being "caught" at the scene of the crime. Since usually players that end up where someone dies have some guilt associated with them, I figured I would look for a connection there. So, why would Azza be killed by Lewwyn? Where's the sense in that? So, what did Azza do. 
The closest I could find was that Azza seemed to talk about Pindicator a good few times, not a small feat with his tiny postcount. #195, #264, #384, #388. This would have been a way to try and keep Pindicator free from one of his accusers in days to come, without attacking one of his high-profile attackers that might draw more immediate suspicion, which is a sound wolf tatic that I've used before as a wolf. Also looking through Pindicator's post history, his only interaction with Lewwyn on the first day is the back and forth about my post restriction, which is evidence of interaction but nothing "connecting" if wolfs trying to build a history. After the Lewwyn reveal today, Pindicator also kept defending Lewwyn in the quicktopic over and over, which drew my suspicion: 

Pretty sure that clears both Mattimeo and Lewwyn. Process of elimination is the silver lining to that cluster...

Okay, then I actually read the whole of Gazglum's post and I just said what he said. So crap, now I don't know about my reads on Lewwyn & Gazglum. Hard to see those two as scum buddies with Lewwyn pushing him today

I think you're right to give Lewwyn due diligence, but my take on his original reaction to Matt's claim was that he was trying to mitigate the damage done by Mattimeo's reveal.
The thing that does strike me odd is Lewwyn saying that his ability can't hurt villagers. For one, if there's ever two kills and both are village then he's a goner. Two, it seems like pandering to the village when he was hetting village leans from people anyway.
Am interested to see his response but it looks more like village pr at this poimt

Lewwyn is mostly based on his reaction right after Mattimeo. I admit that isn't a ton though

Lewwyn's response really makes me think village. Look at him describe his targeting of Azza: because he thinks he's village? He's not a common vig, he's something else, to have targeted Azza because he thought the guy was village...

With a few of those responses brought up at a time that made sense. For example, the last one was not in response to anything I said or asked, and wasn't posted around the time that Lewwyn debate was going on in the main thread, so it just seemed to be a poke to try and dissuade me from my suspicion of Lewwyn and vote on him. However after further questioning, Pindicator saved himself some face with 

Ok, I see where you're coming from (I re-read a bit). I'm trying to remember what prompted me to write [all] that, and I don't remember. I probably was just posting my thoughts after something in the main thread. Thinking out loud because I'm not in love with any one person as scum.

Which sounded believable. And besides the Lewwyn issue, Pindicator has been very helpful and well articulated in thread about any other discussion, and doesn't give me much other cause for suspicion. 
Also with Lewwyn, I was poking him alot during the day because I thought his situation was critical, and his responses all at this point sound plausible and worth giving him a chance on. A limited vig that can only actually kill non-humans? and some characters being mentioned that aren't "human" but are village-aligned? Well, I suppose I can buy that. I was really suspicious of why Azza, but I can agree that Azza is often a tough nut to read, and if you have the belief that your kill won't kill someone who is good, then that is believable. 
So I spent most of the day reading over these two and trying to piece this together, but when I had them each under questioning, they seemed honest and believable enough that I'm not going to try and push a lynch here. I still wanted to state all of this though, especially if something happened to me before I can talk regularly again, so it's in the records for the village. 

The zak/slowcheetah issue: Understand that this will be shorter because I thought I would have a great revelation to lead a Lewwyn crusade, but as of the last few hours I've had to go back and read more. I really think that zak would need to be believed here. First of all, just cause of the gossipers there was one town and one ghoul already, is no reason to assume that there's one wolf as well. Serdoa told us not to try and metagame this, and zak coming forth wit the QT as a wolf is an incredibly risky proposition, even if he did edit what was said in the QT logs. I will admit that I had reservations about zak after day 1, with him being close to the top in postcount, and his posts mainly being either reactions or quick questions. But the QT does help explain all that, even if he didn't talk there very much, QT convos take attention away from the main thread oftentimes (like they did for me today) and that can help explain some of his aloofness. 
Slowcheetah has also had a very poor showing in light of the zak attack renewed. He has only posted twice, #538 & #553, and in those posts were an attack on zak for repeated questioning jowy about his post style (which i understand from zak's POV, it is hard to fully understand), as well as a bunch of very short blurbs about other players, either "mumblemumble village lean" or "mumblebumble vote". Small post counts are fine yes, but why would you not make an attempt at a defensive stance against your attacker more than "Lewwyn's reasoning"? This seems like a slowcheetah caught wolf-handed, and i can see some parallels to him his last game where we were scumbuddies, which adds in a gut feel I have against him, which is why I'm fine lynching slowcheetah. 
So, I think that Slow would make a good lynch today, especially over the other options there. Zak due to being opposed and alot of the arguments on him being related to meta basis or the quicktopic post (fake edit: uberfish, i don't see zak getting pressure on him much before his QT post, i disagree that it was forced); ichabod due to this playing seeming more like the smartass Ichabod Morte (which is a compliment, even though all you do AGAIN is make fun of me ) from the last uberfish game and coming to the front with wolf hunting, and gazglum due to him coming back and offering some good insight to his feelings and instigating some wolf hunting instead of just standing around. 
So slowcheetah is my vote and I'm comfortable staying there unless we get any sort of new revelation. 

[Ichabod]

Why did you watch Azza, Mattimeo?

...do people even read what I post? I do wonder sometimes :/

though maybe it is more complicated?
i mean, if me and novice vote different target, then it shows that novice lied.
any past experience with extra vote?

I do recall one instance where it was actually sourced from the player it was placed on - as part of a collection of abilities, one of which *had* to be used every day.
...if memory serves correctly, that player was Serdoa, I believe?

Sorry, mattimeo. There are so many posts that I get confused sometimes. I tend to focus my attention more on a couple of players posts (the ones I suspect, usually), since it's hard to focus on everything without getting lost. So, things pass me by, more often than not.

Uberfish, by the way. Just to see if the extra vote isn't a Uberfish perk, rather than a Novice/Jowy perk.

[zakalwe]

I didn't sit back on day 1 and night 1, IMO. But I did do that in the first half of day 2.

[BRickAstley]

[Mattimeo]

...so, we're going for the "absolutely no-one talks in the last half an hour" approach, rather than the "everyone jump on a new bandwagon in the last half hour" approach?

[pindicator]

Okay, so for future posts, this will act as a key for what I'm trying to say:

Numbers: The domino pictures like
These will be used usually to denote post numbers I am referring to, but just for any numbers I need.
Post:
Used to say "Hey, post!" in conjunction with numbers usually, but maybe in sentences for "He posted ....."
Players: As I am now, I'll post the avatar of a player whenever i'm talking to or about them. I have the group picture I put together in paint that means "everyone"
Wolf/Villager pictures:
Used to denote who I think is good or bad. IF THERE ARE MORE THAN ONE of these, interpret it as parts, so say one picture of a villager, two pictures of a wolf, means "this player is 1 part villager, 2 parts wolf, in my eyes", for reads i'm not 100% sure of. 
Random faces: If the face looks like a reaction to something, it usually is. Exceptions include fingers, thumbs up and down mean yes or no, pointing out means "I'm emphasizing this."
Oh! I also got alot of the faces from http://imgflip.com/memetemplates, since they had a lot of blank meme templates from there since they're usually evocative and come without pictures there; If I use something that's a smaller square that looks like a meme maybe, chances are i got it from there, which might help shed some light on it. 
Sanity: instead of just quoting serdoa's opening post every time, I want an image for sanity. 
I'll use this image:
That's the sanity symbol from Arkham Horror, should be easily consistent enough. 
Specific words: if I need to have a specific word made known, I'll find a picture that has an example of that I'm trying to say and draw an arrow to what exactly I want that picture to mean. For example:

Also means "a post"

Those are the main ones I wanted to make known, I should be able to make my thoughts clear from this point, just please work with me while I do my best to make myself clear. In addition, if anyone wants to ask me about a specific topic that might be tough to put into pictures (say something else like sanity comes up), then if you could provide me with some picture/word pairs that would enable me to be more clear I would greatly appreciate it. 
Also since it was asked: yes my post restriction is restrictive, but it is not the only part to my role. However, it wouldn't help the village to know exactly what it is right now, and it would help the wolves decide if I need to be killed quickly or if I should stay around, so I don't wanna give any details. 
This should be my last post through Pindicator barring any last second mayhem, so I'll talk to you again on the other side.