WW25 - Game Thread

[zakalwe]

already answered earlier in thread.
if i play every game same way, i become predictable.
please dont focus too much on it, already distract us too much first day.

Brick, why did you call Jowy a wolf for this? Don't you think he could be doing something similar to what you've been doing?

[zakalwe]

The "ok then" was because I was going with the flow in order to try and save myself (without having to lynch a town read).

I guess what I don't like about that phrasing is that it sounds like you're reluctantly going along with voting for him. And I don't see why you'd need to emphasize that.

Anyway... I'm fine with forcing Brick to claim. I still view him as the default lynch today, unless there is very strong evidence against someone else.

[Qgqqqqq]

I don't see the problem with "Ok then."
I viewed that as, "Ok, then I'll vote MJW to save myself (i.e. if this is where the consensus is swaying, that's where I'll go)"
I don't see reluctance, only a willingness to jump onto someone else.

[zakalwe]

You know, I am sorry if I offended a sensibility that you (and zak too) had that all village players must be honorable and never lie about anything ever, but this is a game of investigating people and trying to seek out those people that have it out for the rest of us. At this point, you're content to play in a way to take me out just for the sake of being misleading, regardless if I'm on the bad team or not because that's, from my guess, in your mind "not the right way to play", even at the cost of making you lose the game. If I'm hitting you personally I apologize, but in the in-game theater this is is nothing less than a horrible position to take up.

Somewhat poor position for this game.
Brilliant position for the meta-game.

To explain where I'm coming from on Brick... I agree 100% with this. That Brick quote actually made me angry the first time I read it. If he is a villager, his arrogance is staggering. (And that says something, coming from me...) I don't care what kind of "viggy" role you have, Brick. You must vastly overestimate its importance if you think is justifies playing like you did.

Just to clarify; this isn't personal, and I'm not taking it personally. But we do in fact disagree strongly about how the game should be played, and the correct way for me to show that in-game is to give you my vote.

@Q. The willingness to jump is implied by the vote itself. The fact that he also included "Ok then" implies reluctance, to me.

[Jkaen]

JKaen, analyzing posts 1-300 speaks of good effort, but frankly I think it would be more useful if you skimmed them and commented on current affairs.

The problem is to understand current affairs you need to understand the background

[Jkaen]

Well I don't know what to say. I almost do take it personally that people would lynch me over a proven liar. BRick's case on me is the kind I used to whip up when I was just a little cub. Just quote your target's posts, add some suggestive commentary and sprinkle a little narrative.

I see how BRick comes across as villagery - he does act like a man with a conviction (along with his Stockholm syndromed sidekick Pindicator), and spins a convincing tale about his thought processes. Just remember that he's fooled everyone like this before, and that earnest scumhunting is easy to do in a multifaction game. Personally, I've learned to value objective evidence after my fiasco in the Futurama game.

This post screamed wolf to me, I just can't see Novice as a villager defending like this. Plus his pushing for a reveal of the details of bricks power seems suspicious too

Jowy I admit has been posting a lot more coherently the last day. On the other hand, I don't think I believe his vanilla claim. And Jowy, you never explained the "I'm so dead tonight," post. Why would you think you were going to be a target

That's a good point. Is anybody else vanilla in this game?

[zakalwe]

Actually, after going in circles several times about who is scum, I'm not sure it's so unlikely that Brick is scum, either. I think some of the reason people are getting town vibes from him currently is that he's just being very verbose. But we've seen him as a verbose wolf before. Not just in the infamous drone riots game; even though he was clamming up for parts of day 1 in the previous game, he also made a huge case against Azza later in that game. So he has no problem churning out big posts like his case against Novice.

Like I said earlier, any town tells derived from him "overcoming" his post restriction should be considered invalid. If he is scum, he has been trying very actively to deceive all of us, and that deception obviously includes trying to make the best of the situation. It's not like he'd pretend to be post restricted and uninterested in trying to overcome it. He started the game by expressing anger at his restriction, setting himself up for an automatic boost in towncred just by plugging on.

Instead, what we should look at are his actual contributions, which are poor, since he deliberately adopted a style that makes it impossible to make deep contributions. His "best" case on day 1, which he apparently takes pride in, was a breakdown of Ichabod's posts into various categories. It's not a compelling case, and it was targeting a villager. That only counts as a decent contribution IF you assume that he had no way to communicate better. When he got access to the QT on day 2, he could have contributed as well as anyone else, but I don't think he excelled. Besides clearing up his previous posts, he made one long writeup to explain his vote for Slowcheetah, and that was really it. The rest of it was the rambling in the QT that he was being questioned about when he broke down and confessed.

I think the biggest town tell for Brick right now is his unrepentant attitude. That part seems more like a misguided villager than scum. But he could just be sensing that people are willing to forgive him and building on that.

Since I keep going in circles myself, it's also understandable that people are landing on Novice as scum. And maybe he is - it's certainly possible. I am probably rationalizing too much when it comes to Novice, and with all the people pointing fingers at him, I admit that I am starting to get that uneasy feeling that defending him may be the wrong thing to do. (I'm sure it will come back to bite me if he IS scum.) But the point remains that it's also very possible that Brick is scum. Therefore, he really deserves to hang before anyone else.

[zakalwe]

I see how BRick comes across as villagery - he does act like a man with a conviction (along with his Stockholm syndromed sidekick Pindicator), and spins a convincing tale about his thought processes. Just remember that he's fooled everyone like this before, and that earnest scumhunting is easy to do in a multifaction game. Personally, I've learned to value objective evidence after my fiasco in the Futurama game.

I actually have to agree that I could see a wolf Novice defending like this. Feels like he's playing a bit on emotions with his references in that passage.

About Jowy, as I have alluded to for a long time now, I think it's pretty likely that he's lying to us, and thinking that he's very clever. Much like Brick, in other words.

[Jkaen]

Ok in two posts now I see the seeds of novice trying to build a case on me for my (admittedly) low post count, which I see as flailing around for a lunch able alternate to brick

Since there seems no interest in Jowy

Novice

[novice]

Unofficial vote count since i don't think we've had one.

novice (4.1) - BRick, Qgqqqqq, Lewwyn, Pindicator
BRick (2) - novice, mattimeo
uberfish (1) - gazglum
zakalwe (1) - uberfish
Jowy (1) - jkaen
Gazglum (1) - zakalwe

zakalwe

Novice

Brick

Updated count:

novice (5.1) - BRick, Qgqqqqq, Lewwyn, Pindicator, Gazglum
BRick (3) - novice, mattimeo, zakalwe
zakalwe (2) - uberfish, jowy
Jowy (1) - jkaen

One of his first votes, after a vote on slow for 'dont vote people at start cause you always do'. The actual vote was earlier, but he gives a reason here that could be understandable for an early vote, but isn't very strong. It's not out of the realms of possibility that MJW had knowledge that pertained to sanity that could have been wolf-influenced.

Well, in hindsight we know that he didn't have wolf-influenced knowledge of the sanity mechanic, but we *do* know that the person who initially introduced sanity to the discussion in a major way, and whose claims MJW was basing his entire argument on, was lying about those claims.
And then, this person ends the day with the final vote against MJW?

Quoted for emphasis. BRick was happy to let other players sweat for assumptions related to his own lies.

There has to be at least three scum in the tally above. I think they are BRick, Gazglum/Q, and Uberfish/Jowy/Jkaen.