WW25 - Game Thread

[pindicator]

Yeah, I slept on it and I think my best vote is for Gazglum. My gut doesn't like it, but if Gaz does end up being village then we've confirmed Zak as town (and I had my eye on Zak as scum, so that would be good info to have too).

Technically there is another possibility for the events that we've had in this game: that there is only one scum team and Lewwyn is a villager who has been honest about his ability.

Night 1
Lewwyn targets Azza and kills him with his vig power
Ghoul kills Rowain

Night 2
Ghoul (not novice) kills Ichabod

Night 3
Night kill is blocked (Gazglum), prevented (targeting Jowy), or not ordered

[Jkaen]

Hmm other thought that has occured to me following the thinking through.

Given what we know only 1 person is claiming to have sanity as a cause rather than effect of their ability (Brick) (obviously we dont know dead roles), also given the causes of low sanity seem to mean the village is doing badly, I think we can transpose that low sanity figure = more powerful village (note I refer just to the number, not the causes of dropping the number).

That means that uberfishes claimed power is:
Lowers sanity without harming village (pro)
Minor seer power (pro)
Vig kill (pro)

We are having it sold as the sanity loss being there to balance out the positives, but I would argue its three positive abilities rolled into 1 power.

If uber is telling the truth and brick is lying, then I see no power announced that remotely cares what the sanity is.

Am I missing something here?

[pindicator]

Gazglum's power is also tied to sanity, but it sounds like it gets worse as sanity lowers

[Jkaen]

Great, given we think Gazglum is scum his power should get worse as sanity lowers as that would mean the scum is winning

[Jkaen]

This is where I hope Rowain's post in the lurker thread just now is along the lines of 'Jkaen's cracked it!' rather than 'Another stupid idea from Jkaen!'

[pindicator]

This is where I hope Rowain's post in the lurker thread just now is along the lines of 'Jkaen's cracked it!' rather than 'Another stupid idea from Jkaen!'

I keep imagining every Rowain post in the lurker thread is how Pindicator is ruining the village again...

[BRickAstley]

Ok, I guess its time for last ditch survival post.[/quote

Hey, at least you're admitting that you;re doing your best to beg the village off of catching you in the act.

I am sure that one of the claimed vigilantes is scum. I just don’t’ believe there is that much killing ability in the game. I agree with Uber that it doesn’t make sense for his ability to power up himself AND another killer. I agree with Zak that having 3 vig shots suddenly open up in the end game is crazy, and not in a fun way. It basically results in the entire game coming down to Brick and Uber’s targeting ability.

I had thought Lewwyn could have been scum, it just seems so hard not to believe that he happened to vig Azza on a night with only one other scum kill. Now that I am in my own unlikely situation, I am more sympathetic to it. Plus his role makes sense to me, flavour wise, I think his response to Mattimeo was towny and I think he has generally just given town vibes throughout.

I think that one of the misconceptions that is coming around is that Lewwyn's truthiness does not tie to his innocence. In a scum game with multiple factions, An extra killtype that can specifically target another scum team makes a lot of sense in regards to balance and ability, so he might be telling us the complete truth besides his allegiance.

If Lewwyn is town, then I think Pindicator is too. Lewwyn thinks Pindicator is vulnerable to his kill, and it seems a lot more likely that Lewwyn had a vig ability that could kill ghouls + 1 town than ghouls + 1 wolf. Also, Pindi has been pretty townish in our QT I think.

I've seen very little suspicion to hunt pindicator really. He's been very participatory, and very helpful to me personally in tracking down wolves.

So yes, I’m coming around to Brick. I was suspicious of Uber earlier in the game, but I think he has been showing himself pretty logical and townish in the last day or so. More importantly, HE was the one who claimed the third vigilante role and opened that can of worms, which he didn’t have to do. And if he was doing it to frame Brick, why would he follow it up with a role-scry that seemed to let Brick off the hook?

I agree here, uber has done well to hunt and to be forthcoming in his analysis and results. If one of us 3 vig types is a scum, I would much more think Lewwyn than uber.

So I think its Brick. In fact, I’m pretty sure of it. Yes, I thought that he seemed townish in his posts yesterday, but in the light of what has happened since, he seems pretty scummy to me right now.

I don’t have time to do one of those running right thorugh all Brick’s posts things, but to summarise the salient points.

Ohh goodie, more misaligned bullet points!

1. Everything from Day 2: Brick lied to us about his role. He voted MJW for focusing too much on a mechanic that HE introduced.

Um, here's the thing, it doesn't matter that I talked about it first, because Serdoa made it clear that it was in the game, and other people have brought up that they knew about it having some affect based on their role PMs. Yes I voted him, because that was the only thing he was talking about at all, it looked like it might be a wolf trying to draw too much attention on the meta issues. And again, I wasn't happy with him fully as a lynch candidate for that even, he was just the most suspicious of the people up for lynch.

Also, did you forget that I explained all of this to you here when you asked me about it? This is a suspicious regression in your knowledge, especially since I responded to you directly.

2. Brick posted a LOT when he was on the block yesterday, offering a new and improved talky Brick. Once the spotlight moved today, he has gone down to a minimum.

Wait, why did I talk alot? Oh yeah, because I voluntarily brought to light what was happening, and did so because I had found someone I was feeling very sure was scum, who ended up being scum. I worked my ass off BECAUSE I knew I wouldn't be believable at first, and I wanted people to see where I was coming from. Today, I haven't had as hard a tell to chase after, and I've been busy. Plus, I burned myself out a bit. Even with my "minimum" day, I'm still 20 posts ahead of everyone else, that shit's tiring. And I was busy yesterday. Should we lynch you because you've been moving books and therefore aren't around before YOU were being talked about?

3. Brick was blocked by Pindicator the night that there was (assuming Lewwyn is town) a missing kill.

So, you're assuming here that I was the one doing the wolf kill, even though i 100% knew that Pindicator was going to visit me that night and I had made myself look highly suspicious with the post restriction when if I was a wolf surely one of my teammates would have been more low key and could have done the kill? I think the possibility that there's another form of kill blocking out there or that lewwyn is a wolf or that Rowain was doubled up on is more likely.

4. Brick was the only person other than Pindicator who knew that the block would happen, and what the likely effect of a no-kill order would be on the poor sap in Pindicator’s QT topic.

I knew he would block someone, and if I would have thought about it, then yes, a no kill would be a good way to implicate them. However that is not the case, and I appreciate the unfiltered lens you're using to analyze if I'm a wolf or not that's assuming guilt and premeditated harm for something I didn't do.

5. Brick claimed a role that seems very strong, that seems to double-up with Uberfish’s, and which basically demands that we keep him alive until the end game.

So, I'm REALLY not getting where people are coming from with the "2 shot vig when sanity is dropping" counts as a particularly strong role. Two kills are very strong? That's way on the light side for vigs we've had in these games.

Also, keep in mind I claimed it after Lewwyns and rather notedly questioned Lewwyn about his role when he revealed because I was suspicious of a role like mine, so you giving uber points for claiming after me and condemning me when I claim after lewwyn is inconsistent.

And any village power role can be construed to be "kept alive until the end game", since it helps the village, now you're just throwing guilty sounding statements on me in the hopes enough of them stick that people will vote me, regardless of truth.

6. Look at this post:

[quote='BRickAstley' pid='389060' dateline='1372626729']
Well okay, since that's where Pindicator visited/stopped, I'm willing to go with Gazglum as well.

This is also part of the reason I was so set on novice, I knew Pindicator had the kill-block and felt likely that that is why there was one less kill.

So Brick knew that Pindicator would have blocked Novice’s kill on Day 3. But he NEVER mentioned this? Sure, I understand why you wouldn’t want to spill the beans about a friend’s abilities if there was no need. But Brick was in a 2 horse survival race with Novice the whole day, and needed every bit of help he could get. Is it really feasible that he wouldn’t use this evidence?

The only reason I can see that Brick wouldn’t want that to be discussed, is because it would lead to the question of if Brick was blocked on Night 1. Which he was.

The ONLY reason? The only reason that I wouldn't mention that "Hey here's a village defense power role" is that it might lead to suspicion of me? How about the fact that it helped cement novice as a scum, and could be used again to catch another scum???? Of course I didn't want to do that! I was prepared to if the vote got close enough to swing the deal, but unlike your false assumption, that wasn't the case. Look at the vote counts:

Official Vote Count

novice (6)- Qgqqqq, Lewwyn, pindicator, BRickAstley, Gazglum, Jkaen
BRickAstley (3) - novice, Mattimeo, zakalwe
zakalwe (2) - uberfish, Jowy

7 hours, 45 minutes to go

Official Vote Count

novice (7)- Qgqqqq, Lewwyn, pindicator, BRickAstley, Gazglum, Jkaen, Jowy
BRickAstley (4) - novice, Mattimeo, zakalwe, uberfish

2 hours, 26 minutes to go

Official Vote End-Count

novice (7.1)- Qgqqqq, Lewwyn, BRickAstley, Gazglum, Jkaen, Jowy, +1
BRickAstley (4) - novice, Mattimeo, zakalwe, uberfish
Lewwyn (1) - pindicator

So it is suspicious that I didn't out a village protector role when I was comfortably 3 votes safe, plus Q's mayor power, for the whole last 8 hours of the day? Yeah I'm not buying that. I didn't bring it up because it was not necessary to convict novice, and so it could potentially be used in a later day to catch another scum, in this case, you.

The only evidence in Brick's favour is Uberfish’s scry result. But it didn’t directly back up his claim. Only ‘learns by day, fires by night’. I don’t know what that means. Maybe Brick is an arsonist, and Serdoa is being a smart-alec in his wording. Maybe he has a day ability and a night ability, in which case he’s lied to us again. Maybe he IS a vigilante, but on the wolf side, if that’s even possible. Or maybe ‘fires by night’ just refers to the fact that he has a night kill.

How about because I'm an apprentice I learn, and because it's for a gunmaker I can shoot at night. That pretty succinctly sums it up.

Finally, even if you think I am scum, if you think that Brick might be too, please vote for him tonight first. Sanity is still 13, and I think I have a good chance of getting another successful scry off. Then you can lynch me tomorrow and have more information than you would today. And if Brick shows up scum, which I’m pretty sure he will, maybe you’ll believe me anyway. And if Uber makes it through, you don’t even have to waste a lynch on me, he could vig shot me tomorrow and prove my alignment.

This sounds like a blatant wolf grasp at "Well sure lynch me, but kill him first!" Oh, and that happens to knock out the 2-shot vig for them without wasting a night kill, how nice!

Your defense is ringing so many bells that sounds just like the ones when novice was put up to the block. It's a large and decent crafted attempt to throw blame off of yourself, but it sounds to me like floundering under pressure. I also don't like your seer claim. By halfway through the 4th day, especially with this much drama in regards to roles, if we had a seer they would likely have claimed by now, so that was a pretty safe claim for you to make. You also use the sanity mechanics to be set up so that if you stay alive, any future 'reads' you can make might be wrong so it's not your fault, and it's nice and convenient that you only have one read that's not dead or blocked. In short, a nice try, but I think you've been caught red-handed here.

Gazglum

[BRickAstley]

Some of that quoting got a little messed up, the first part of the post is supposed to read like this:

Ok, I guess its time for last ditch survival post.

Hey, at least you're admitting that you;re doing your best to beg the village off of catching you in the act.

I am sure that one of the claimed vigilantes is scum. I just don’t’ believe there is that much killing ability in the game. I agree with Uber that it doesn’t make sense for his ability to power up himself AND another killer. I agree with Zak that having 3 vig shots suddenly open up in the end game is crazy, and not in a fun way. It basically results in the entire game coming down to Brick and Uber’s targeting ability.

I had thought Lewwyn could have been scum, it just seems so hard not to believe that he happened to vig Azza on a night with only one other scum kill. Now that I am in my own unlikely situation, I am more sympathetic to it. Plus his role makes sense to me, flavour wise, I think his response to Mattimeo was towny and I think he has generally just given town vibes throughout.

I think that one of the misconceptions that is coming around is that Lewwyn's truthiness does not tie to his innocence. In a scum game with multiple factions, An extra killtype that can specifically target another scum team makes a lot of sense in regards to balance and ability, so he might be telling us the complete truth besides his allegiance.

If Lewwyn is town, then I think Pindicator is too. Lewwyn thinks Pindicator is vulnerable to his kill, and it seems a lot more likely that Lewwyn had a vig ability that could kill ghouls + 1 town than ghouls + 1 wolf. Also, Pindi has been pretty townish in our QT I think.

I've seen very little suspicion to hunt pindicator really. He's been very participatory, and very helpful to me personally in tracking down wolves.

[Serdoa]

Official Vote-count

Gazglum (8) - Lewwyn, uberfish, Mattimeo, Qgqqqqq, Jowy, Jkaen, pindicator, BRickAstley
BRickAstley (2) - zakalwe, Gazglum

1 hour 13 minutes to go

[BRickAstley]

This thread is way too quiet... Makes me nervous.